Sony A9/A1 + 28mm 1.4 Summilux

[dancook]

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Just about to buy a couple of Sony A1 and I went an ordered a techart Leica-M to Sony AF adapter.

I currently have 21 SEM, 35 FLE and 50 1.4 ASPH

I understand FLE does not play well with the adapter, but I've always wanted the 28mm 1.4 anyway!

Anybody using that lens on Sony, how's it looking?

 

In the past I wouldn't have considered it, but I've recently moved over from lightroom to DXO Photolab - the Sony colours and output have been much preferable through DXO - I even use the Leica M9 colour profile, and it looks good 

Edited March 20, 2021 by dancook

[jaeger]

1 hour ago, dancook said:

Just about to buy a couple of Sony A1 and I went an ordered a techart Leica-M to Sony AF adapter.

I currently have 21 SEM, 35 FLE and 50 1.4 ASPH

I understand FLE does not play well with the adapter, but I've always wanted the 28mm 1.4 anyway!

Anybody using that lens on Sony, how's it looking?

 

In the past I wouldn't have considered it, but I've recently moved over from lightroom to DXO Photolab - the Sony colours and output have been much preferable through DXO - I even use the Leica M9 colour profile, and it looks good 

Wow, you can force DXO to associate images with a different camera?  I'm using LR and nothing like this can be done but seems like a interesting trick.

I use M lenses with Nikon Z (manual adapter) and never have complaints, what concerns do you have?  I'm very curious about the accuracy of auto focusing adapter shooting with 50 summilux, wide open, low light + eye detection.  Most of those youtube videos are in pin focus, small aperture, wide angle lens in bright light.  These lenses are almost focus free in such conditions - wide depth of field and zone focusing.   They never responded to my request lol. 

 

[dancook]

33 minutes ago, jaeger said:

Wow, you can force DXO to associate images with a different camera?  I'm using LR and nothing like this can be done but seems like a interesting trick.

I use M lenses with Nikon Z (manual adapter) and never have complaints, what concerns do you have?  I'm very curious about the accuracy of auto focusing adapter shooting with 50 summilux, wide open, low light + eye detection.  Most of those youtube videos are in pin focus, small aperture, wide angle lens in bright light.  These lenses are almost focus free in such conditions - wide depth of field and zone focusing.   They never responded to my request lol. 

 

The colour is such an improvement over Lightroom that I'm starting to like my Sony again, and the DeepPRIME noise reduction is just amazing - so much better than Lightroom and faster and more convenient than Topaz Denoise. Makes ISO 6400 look like ISO 100 without turning the image to mush, far from it - looks fantastic.

I am concerned about what is lost putting the Leica lens on a Sony body, and I don't know if that varies from lens to lens. 

Whilst I'm less concerned about colour now, I've been trying to quantify the characteristics of a lens, and also whether or not processing could make up for it.. but it would not make up for the size difference in lenses.

This guy is using a noctilux, which weighs more than the recommended weight limit for the adapter - but comments he's used it for a year now with no problem

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by dancook

[dancook]

I'm quite tempted to sell up 21 SEM, 35mm FLE, 50 1.4 M10M - get 28mm 1.4 and 50mm 0.95 for use with Sony A1 via adapter

Lockdown has me a little stir crazy..

Edited March 20, 2021 by dancook

[jaeger]

1 hour ago, dancook said:

The colour is such an improvement over Lightroom that I'm starting to like my Sony again, and the DeepPRIME noise reduction is just amazing - so much better than Lightroom and faster and more convenient than Topaz Denoise. Makes ISO 6400 look like ISO 100 without turning the image to mush, far from it - looks fantastic.

I am concerned about what is lost putting the Leica lens on a Sony body, and I don't know if that varies from lens to lens. 

Whilst I'm less concerned about colour now, I've been trying to quantify the characteristics of a lens, and also whether or not processing could make up for it.. but it would not make up for the size difference in lenses.

This guy is using a noctilux, which weighs more than the recommended weight limit for the adapter - but comments he's used it for a year now with no problem

 

Nah, it's just another Chinese company hiring an unknown foreigner to promote their crap.  I want to see eye lashes @ 100% crop in post editing which he would hesitate to show you.  In this video, although he claim it was f/0.95 but it was in bright daylight and no eye focus.  I predict there are only a few nailed to perfect (lucky) focus in a hundred shots which is not better than full manual.   I get 50/50 or more perfectly focused shots @ f/0.95 which is much better than this toy.

[Keith (M)]

There is a lot of info on the web about M lens (wider than 50mm) suffering corner smearing due mainly (partly?) to the cover glass thickness on the Sony sensor.  However, I've used my 35mm Summaron f2.8 on my A7III without noticing any obvious issue.  Still haven't tried my 21mm SEM though...

[dancook]

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24 minutes ago, Steven said:

Hey @dancook, 

Here's a little present for you: 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rdCh_t9GS-Lev19GSXPbYsVKBrfS3yLZ?usp=sharing

A1 + Metabones +  Summilux 28mm 1.4 

vs 

SL2-S + Leica L-M + Summilux 28mm 1.4

Quick and dirty side by side, handheld, ISO 800, F1.4, 1/60th. 

It's Saturday night so its just a little teaser, but I can do more scenarios later. 

P.S. I don't want to give you any spoiler, but I know how the story ends already. 

Thanks!

Well DXO Photolab won't open either, which is disappointing - hopefully they will add support for the Sony A1 soon.

Once I white balanced the Sony file off the paper it looks the same as the SL, other than a heavier vignette.

How does the story end?  with me buying the 28Lux?

Edited March 20, 2021 by dancook

[dancook]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

I will tell you in a minute. Typing from my phone now. 
 

Would you be able to post here the JPEG exports of the two WB corrected files ? I’m curious how well you managed to match the colors of Leica on Sony cause I’ve been incapable to do this myself !  

First one SL, second one Sony - side by side like this i see differences in colour .. flowers, dress, skin - I prefer the SL here, but I wonder with having DXO colour profile options I could find something similar. The sony doll face seem to lose some contrast between tones, yellow too light perhaps?

I certainly will buying the Sony A1, well two of them. I'll be using them for sports/theatre/weddings and all sorts.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited March 20, 2021 by dancook

[Cronilux]

@dancookthe exposure doesn’t match. Which already cause a difference. I am assuming the white balance isn’t matched as well. Or at least the tint isn’t. I am not on my computer to check on that right now.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Cronilux

[dancook]

9 minutes ago, Steven said:

I think you did a pretty good job at matching them (just White balance and tint, or you tweaked the cubes too?)

I think that the 28 Lux looks perfectly fine on the Sony. 

I think the biggest problem of the Sony is that you need so much extra work while the Leica is good SOOC. When you won't have the Leica as a reference side by side to colour grade, it might take you even more time to achieve a good colour. Because let's face it, the Sony SOOC file was garbage. 

I am curious to know the results of your DXO tests. Please keep us posted ! 

 

I just AWB off the paper nothing more.

Will do, DXO actually has me excited about using Sony again

A1 support...

Good news, roadmap expects camera for 2021‑06 (in DxO PhotoLab 4.3.0).

Edited March 21, 2021 by dancook

[Casey Jefferson]

How about the corner color cast though? I see it the corners on Sony seem pretty dark to make out any color cast. That's the reason why I moved to M system than trying to adapt Leica lenses.

[Cronilux]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Steven:

Both cameras where shot with the same settings.

LR ISO interpretation will lead to differences. Check the histogram I’m on both edits. The white balance also doesn’t match, which causes the biggest difference. If all is matched nobody will be able to tell the difference.

[SiggiGun]

vor 43 Minuten schrieb Steven:

The white balance was set to Auto, because this is how I use both cameras. Indeed, this is where the Sony seems to be always wrong. 

Even once the white balance is corrected, I think the Sony removes the magic out of the M lenses. The depth that they are able to create on an M or an SL seems gone on the Sony. For me, it defeats the purpose of using an M lens on a Sony. On a sony body, I would rather use a Sony/Zeiss 55 1.8 than a 50 APO M .

Indeed. Leica camera sensors & firmware are designed to work with Leica lenses (or lenses designed for Leica cameras). This is especially true for wide angle lenses. Leica lenses cannot give her best on a Sony or other camera 

[dancook]

If only they did a 28mm 1.4 on the Sony!

[Ko.Fe.]

2 hours ago, SiggiGun said:

Indeed. Leica camera sensors & firmware are designed to work with Leica lenses (or lenses designed for Leica cameras). This is especially true for wide angle lenses. Leica lenses cannot give her best on a Sony or other camera 

"Her best" is strange animal. For many, LTM/M mount is new Adaptal. But comparing to Adaptal mount, RF lenses offers what no other lenses do. Small size, metal and glass build with visible controls, focus tab. 

To me it became obvious few years ago. I google users reviews of RF lenses all the time. In the past most of reviews were coming on M mount cameras. M9 was the king. Now I'm having difficulties to find particular RF lens on RF cameras reviews. Many times results are for mirrorless with Sony A FF series in the lead. 

With f1.4 RF lenses "best" is often about been in focus. Last year I took tiny 35 1.4 M mount RF lens on small FF Canon RP with us on the camping, swimming trip. It was the best. No size, weight lens with focus tab, I could focus anywhere in EVF, including corners. Superior to live view on the screen. I could track moving subjects via EVF, like I couldn't with M body. And I could take videos @f1.4 as well. With small FF body. All via EVF. Leica can't do video with M, except one, discontinued series. And only via screen or clunky attachment. 

I have no problems with 35, 50 RF lenses on this FF mirrorless. If I want best results @f1.4 and not just sticking with only middle of the frame RF patch for focusing. In fact, it gives much accurate, trouble free metering, exposures than any M, for obvious reason. If light is crazy, I'll get correct exposures with M/LTM lenses on mirrorless in auto mode, while with digital M my best results are with S16... Again, all via same EVF. I flipped the screen to camera and using only EVF since day one I got this Canon RP.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Ko.Fe.

[dancook]

27 minutes ago, Steven said:

This sounds great, but you can have the same experience with way better results on an SL2S than on a Canon RP or Sony A1... 

It would be nice, but that choice costs another £4000 for a chunky body that makes me want to consider the Q2 again. I'd call it full circle, but I'm in more of a downward spiral at the moment..

 

though at the moment, I'm heading towards - sell everything I don't need - buy two Sony A1, 35mm GM, 50 GM possibly 200-600 lens... and just force myself to use the Sony for everything..

if I really feel I'm missing something, I should have a good chunk of change left.

having so many options is crippling  I feel like I need a reboot.. 

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by dancook

[LBJ2]

On 3/20/2021 at 6:39 AM, dancook said:

Just about to buy a couple of Sony A1 and I went an ordered a techart Leica-M to Sony AF adapter.

I currently have 21 SEM, 35 FLE and 50 1.4 ASPH

I understand FLE does not play well with the adapter, but I've always wanted the 28mm 1.4 anyway!

Anybody using that lens on Sony, how's it looking?

 

In the past I wouldn't have considered it, but I've recently moved over from lightroom to DXO Photolab - the Sony colours and output have been much preferable through DXO - I even use the Leica M9 colour profile, and it looks good 

Sounds like you are getting ready to embark on an exciting adventure. I have a lot of experience with the Techart. First, it really does work with many M lenses! Second, I found Techart AF is allergic to strong backlighting and distance but you can pretty easily swap over to the adapters MF dial in those scenarios. I ended up selling my Techart as I much prefer to MF Leica lenses on Sony bodies for many reasons to include incredible EVF resolution. The Sony A1's EVF is an off the charts 9.44 million dot OLED, so MF with that EVF must be something to behold. Currently I'm stuck with a mere 5.46 million dot EVF on the A7rIV  ha ha.

I use 24 lux, 35 FLE, 50 lux and Noctilux and 90/2 adapted to the A7rIV for now with little to no penalty IMO. However, I do prefer to use the M10 with my M lenses. But good to know I can easily swap between systems since I often work with both systems. * 1/8000th is really nice when using the 50 0,95 on the A7rIV avoiding the ND for most wide open scenarios. The A1 provides for even more carefree wide-open shooting! 

[LBJ2]

2 minutes ago, Steven said:

I don't want to sound like I have a bias, but I can assure that, at least in my experience, the amount of millions of dots don't make everything. The EVF on my SL2S is much more pleasant (and easier to use to take photos) than the one on my A1. The colour reproduction is way better, and it's awful on the Sony. The Sony also look very "digital" while the SL's look like real life. 

Just my experience. I felt the same way when I was using the A7SIII, which I believe uses the same resolution but "only" 120 fps refresh rate. 

To me the quality of the EVF makes a big difference for MF the finest details when punching in. I've read the SL's EVF is also a premium visual experience for the same. I do not have any personal SL or A1 EVF experience yet. I do however also like the opposite of an EVF, the RF experience very much with the M10. 

No worries about bias. I've read your comments about Sony colors more than once. Not a problem either way for me, we all have our likes and dislikes and everybody has a voice. I am happy to shoot Sony and the M10 side by side with the awareness of the differences in color output. But I am also very aware of the external influences lenses and editing software has on color output too. In my opinion all something to manage before, during and after. 

[LBJ2]

4 hours ago, dancook said:

If only they did a 28mm 1.4 on the Sony!

Sony and many other popular manufactures all seem to have forgotten about the 28mm FL of late. I guess they don't read the forums where I see many pleading for a new 28mm. Leica on the other hand gets it for M, Q and now SL. So for 28mm aficionados, Leica has you covered! 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[LBJ2]

10 minutes ago, Steven said:

Completely agree with you here. Maybe because their 28 F2 was never really successful ? Such a pity though. But I did hear rumours of a 28 F1.4 GM coming down the line. This would be pure goodness cause the GM line is really not bad. The new 35 and 50 1.2 look stellar. 

I can take 28mm or leave it. I much prefer FOV of the 24 lux or the 35 FLE for Street over 28mm . I have the same habit on my Sony system which has the excellent GM 24 F1.4 and now GM 35 F1.4 but no decent 28. I do however own the Contax G 28mm ( tiny little lens) but it doesn't perform well on Sony sensors so I don't use that lens often.

But I am almost always mesmerized by many 28mm Lux images when shot wide open. That is a look I admire.

Edited March 21, 2021 by LBJ2