ECN-2 Movie film: sharing your pictures and experiences

[Einst_Stein]

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After some study, I am very interested in the ECN-2 movie films. I like its movie style low contrast and color rendering. Please share your picture and exoerience. Thanks

Not sure if this area is limited to pictures taken by Leica. I dont care, but please respect the rules if any exists (including improper subjects).

It is appreciated if you can indicated the film type and shooting parameters, etc. 

Thanks.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Einst_Stein

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[gbealnz]

A great idea Einst. I think I have some with the Leicaflex, but of late I have shot a bit of Cine250D and Cine500T (both Fuji I think?), and these are not with Leica (Olympus OM and Pen FT). Is it a better idea to clarify with "management" as to whether non-Leica equipment is allowed. Otherwise, I have been posting in the long running "I Like Film" thread.

Gary

[gbealnz]

Some 250D with the Leicaflex SL

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[Einst_Stein]

I would just push the boundary. Just go ahead post it till we get push back.

Thanks for the sharing.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Einst_Stein

[Einst_Stein]

2 hours ago, gbealnz said:

A great idea Einst. I think I have some with the Leicaflex, but of late I have shot a bit of Cine250D and Cine500T (both Fuji I think?), and these are not with Leica (Olympus OM and Pen FT). Is it a better idea to clarify with "management" as to whether non-Leica equipment is allowed. Otherwise, I have been posting in the long running "I Like Film" thread.

Gary

That thread is runing long. I would really like to open a thread dedicated to this topic. 

[giannis]

Here's some 250D in all its low-contrast glory. No contrast adjustments (not even white point and black point), just white balance cause it was shot indoors with artificial light (no filter).

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[giannis]

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Same story here. 250D, no contrast adjustments, just white balance. Inversion is done using the Portra 160 profile, but since I set the neutral gray point using the picker, the inversion profile doesn't matter much.

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[Einst_Stein]

1 hour ago, giannis said:

Here's some 250D in all its low-contrast glory. No contrast adjustments (not even white point and black point), just white balance cause it was shot indoors with artificial light (no filter).

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Beautiful picture.

 

1 hour ago, giannis said:

Same story here. 250D, no contrast adjustments, just white balance. Inversion is done using the Portra 160 profile, but since I set the neutral gray point using the picker, the inversion profile doesn't matter much.

Beautiful skin tone.

On C41, When there is black hair, I found clicking the hair in the negative is all I need on WB.  Usually I also need to tweak the contrast to make it lower. 

I guess ECN-2 would not need to adjust contrast.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Einst_Stein

[giannis]

20 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

On C41, When there is black hair, I found clicking the hair in the negative is all I need on WB. 

Yup same deal here. Or with anything gray, like asphalt, concrete, poles and streetsigns etc. .

21 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

I guess ECN-2 would not need to adjust contrast.

Sounds like it, if you like low contrast. If I can suggest anything, is overexposure. Same with all negative film really, but with cine film you have to worry even less about the highlights.

 

Here's some more (250D) in daylight, overcast.

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[250swb]

1 hour ago, giannis said:

Yup same deal here. Or with anything gray, like asphalt, concrete, poles and streetsigns etc. .

Sounds like it, if you like low contrast. If I can suggest anything, is overexposure. Same with all negative film really, but with cine film you have to worry even less about the highlights.

 

Here's some more (250D) in daylight, overcast.

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With respect but I don't see the point of posting images promoting 'low contrast' where you say 'no contrast adjustments' because a low contrast film is not a film that doesn't have any blacks or whites. Just look at the histograms of the last three photos you posted and there are no black tones in them, that isn't an inherent feature of this film, the best that could be said is that its an inherent feature of your post processing.

[giannis]

5 hours ago, 250swb said:

With respect but I don't see the point of posting images promoting 'low contrast' where you say 'no contrast adjustments' because a low contrast film is not a film that doesn't have any blacks or whites. Just look at the histograms of the last three photos you posted and there are no black tones in them, that isn't an inherent feature of this film, the best that could be said is that its an inherent feature of your post processing.

As I said, I didn't adjust them as I would want them for a final print; at the very least I would have set a proper black point and white point. Or apply a contrast curve. That's what I meant by "no contrast adjustments". Admittedly, comparing negative film is tricky online, cause it has to go through scanning and inversion.

In any case, the film is low contrast in any way you look at it, you can take any of my photos and change the white point and black point to your liking, and you'll see it does retain a lower overall contrast relative to most films. Another way to look at it, is when scanning, even a high contrast scene, the whole histogram of the scan falls comfortably in the middle with plenty of room both to the right and left, i.e. no clipped highlights or shadows. Or of course the best test would be trying to print on RA-4 paper with its fixed contrast (as long as you don't modify the chemistry).

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[Einst_Stein]

6 hours ago, 250swb said:

With respect but I don't see the point of posting images promoting 'low contrast' where you say 'no contrast adjustments' because a low contrast film is not a film that doesn't have any blacks or whites. Just look at the histograms of the last three photos you posted and there are no black tones in them, that isn't an inherent feature of this film, the best that could be said is that its an inherent feature of your post processing.

We are hete to share something we enjoy.  Art is about styles of expression.

You are not required to like it if you dont, 

[250swb]

35 minutes ago, giannis said:

As I said, I didn't adjust them as I would want them for a final print; at the very least I would have set a proper black point and white point. Or apply a contrast curve. That's what I meant by "no contrast adjustments". Admittedly, comparing negative film is tricky online, cause it has to go through scanning and inversion.

In any case, the film is low contrast in any way you look at it, you can take any of my photos and change the white point and black point to your liking, and you'll see it does retain a lower overall contrast relative to most films. Another way to look at it, is when scanning, even a high contrast scene, the whole histogram of the scan falls comfortably in the middle with plenty of room both to the right and left, i.e. no clipped highlights or shadows. Or of course the best test would be trying to print on RA-4 paper with its fixed contrast (as long as you don't modify the chemistry).

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Now that one represents low contrast film with some black in the shadows, not the previous version which showed what appeared to be film without contrast. As I said, I don't see the point of representing examples of a film if they aren't actual examples. Bit of a colour cast that's all. 

[giannis]

1 minute ago, 250swb said:

Now that one represents low contrast film with some black in the shadows, not the previous version which showed what appeared to be film without contrast. As I said, I don't see the point of representing examples of a film if they aren't actual examples. Bit of a colour cast that's all. 

I see, it's a fair point to make.

The "issue" with actual examples, is I'm always trying to maximise the range I can get on paper (or screen), i.e. I'll stretch the contrast so the shadows just barely clip and the highlights just barely clip, also giving a slight S-curve in the midtones. This makes for a visually stronger image, but if my adjustments are not exactly noted down, it doesn't give a good idea of the film contrast. 

Ideally I could post a raw scan of the negative, but I'm not sure how helpful that would be, since inverting is a tricky process without specific profiles, and I'm not sure everybody interested in these films has the experience and tools to invert them properly.

[250swb]

1 minute ago, giannis said:

I see, it's a fair point to make.

The "issue" with actual examples, is I'm always trying to maximise the range I can get on paper (or screen), i.e. I'll stretch the contrast so the shadows just barely clip and the highlights just barely clip, also giving a slight S-curve in the midtones. This makes for a visually stronger image, but if my adjustments are not exactly noted down, it doesn't give a good idea of the film contrast. 

Ideally I could post a raw scan of the negative, but I'm not sure how helpful that would be, since inverting is a tricky process without specific profiles, and I'm not sure everybody interested in these films has the experience and tools to invert them properly.

I think you are close with the colour which is difficult if you are inverting just by eye. And scanner software doesn't always do a good job. I just tried pressing 'Auto Color' in Photoshop and you can see in the histogram how the RGB colours clean up instead of spikes at the highlight end.

As for tools there are the plugins Negative Lab Pro for Lightroom or Negmaster for Photoshop that do an excellent job of inverting colour negatives. Like you when I did it by eye consistency was the victim and a tricky scene could take ages, now I'd use software.

[giannis]

3 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I think you are close with the colour which is difficult if you are inverting just by eye. And scanner software doesn't always do a good job. I just tried pressing 'Auto Color' in Photoshop and you can see in the histogram how the RGB colours clean up instead of spikes at the highlight end.

As for tools there are the plugins Negative Lab Pro for Lightroom or Negmaster for Photoshop that do an excellent job of inverting colour negatives. Like you when I did it by eye consistency was the victim and a tricky scene could take ages, now I'd use software.

Yeah I'm using software too, mostly the Negafix plugin in Silverfast (the scanning software). I find it gives me the best starting points. Colorperfect and Negative Lab Pro are a close second. Negmaster I haven't heard, I'll give it a look.

But even with plugins, it's a bit of a manual process too. White balance and neutral gray is best selected manually. And sometimes, depending on your film and how you exposed (or if expired etc.), it might need some extra "intervention" in specific channels. My usual workflow is using the profile to get a starting point, then adjusting black and white point for maximum DR for a full range of tones from black to white, then clicking on something which is supposed to be neutral gray for white balance. Finally, if there's some leftover cast I don't like (or maybe the film has a stronger response there which I don't like - for instance Portra shadows can get a bit green, Superia shadows can get a bit magenta, Ektar highlights/skies can be a bit more cyan than I like, or of course slide shadows are strong blues), I get into the curves dialog and dial in what's needed. Say I get cyan skies with Ektar? Complementary of Cyan is Red, so I choose Red from curves and drag the highlight point of red a bit, to add some red in the highlights to neutralise the Cyan. Knowing some basic colour theory (just stuff like complementary colours etc.) helps a lot and saves time, cause you can recognise the cast and intervene "surgically" to remove it in the part of the image that has it. At least the stuff I learned with RA-4 printing isn't that useless after all  

(Also yeah, I can see the red cast, but it was getting late and I was sleepy so I let it slip 😅)

[gbealnz]

5 hours ago, 250swb said:

I think you are close with the colour which is difficult if you are inverting just by eye. And scanner software doesn't always do a good job. I just tried pressing 'Auto Color' in Photoshop and you can see in the histogram how the RGB colours clean up instead of spikes at the highlight end.

Well I'll go "he" Steve, as I am reading this I am scanning some Cine500T, taken with an 85 filter, outside/daylight, and as is most of my Cine experience, invariably with what I think is a colour cast. Having just read your "I just tried pressing "Auto Color" I gave it a try myself. Magic, it looks better. I will use that from now on. Many thanks.

[gbealnz]

Cine250D

SL with 50/2

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[250swb]

2 hours ago, gbealnz said:

 Having just read your "I just tried pressing "Auto Color" I gave it a try myself. Magic, it looks better. I will use that from now on. Many thanks.

It isn't infallible but Pressing 'Auto Colour' from time to time can be a checking strategy, as in better/worse, what I want/what I'm trying to avoid, etc. Oh, and the 'Bel Air' is perfect, a prime example of what movie film can do.

Edited March 16, 2021 by 250swb

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, gbealnz said:

Cine250D

SL with 50/2

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beautiful..and metered at 200 ?