SL System v. (All) — LONG READ

[Svetozar]

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2 minutes ago, LD_50 said:

What is the benefit of having the shutter closed? I would expect the shutter to be more fragile and susceptible to damage than the sensor glass cover. Dust abatement seems to be something it wouldn’t help with because any dust inside the camera or sitting on the shutter would get blown around once the shutter moved. 

Shutter closed should prevent dust from entering directly to sensor. I think Canon R5 have this feature. But maybe you are right if the dust come inside it is just matter of time when it will be in contact with a sensor as well. It have sense what are you talking. Never think that way

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[LD_50]

8 minutes ago, Svetozar said:

Here is a one interesting comparation related to this topic.

It is comparation between:

-Leica SL2-S

-Sony A7s III

-Canon R5

In my opinion Leica wins in terms of noise and low light. In terms of the best standard profile Sony A7s III wins.

i do not like Leica Standard profile for video it bakes the shadows too much in my opinion.

But with L-log or HLG you can achive amazing results.

It looks like Leica SL2-S is one hell of a camera which is really underestimated compared to the ones that are pushing their marketing hard such as Sony and Canon.

It is not always about the best specs, it is about the clean image, colors, rendition, feel when using it...etc.

Let me know what you think about this ?

 

I don’t shoot video. 

In this video I prefer the R5 video and the SL2-S stills. Exposure on the Sony videos looks off to me. 

R5 offers great AF performance for stills and I assume video as well. 

I’m not sure which colors are most accurate for video and stills because they all look so different. 

[LD_50]

5 minutes ago, Svetozar said:

Shutter closed should prevent dust from entering directly to sensor. I think Canon R5 have this feature. But maybe you are right if the dust come inside it is just matter of time when it will be in contact with a sensor as well. It have sense what are you talking. Never think that way

My MP (240) keeps the shutter closed when the lens is off. I found more dust on that sensor than my SL. I’m not sure why. 

[hillavoider]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

The battery level issue was fixed with firmware updates. The only people who still report issues are using non-supported Canon lenses via Sigma's adapter. To be clear: Sigma explicitly doesn't support Canon lenses with their mount adapter.

Given that, I'm not sure that reluctance is the right term. The issue occurred with lenses that they didn't have access-to while developing the SL2. They acknowledged the problem when it was reported, and they released firmware updates.

this still happens with native lenses i'm afraid 

and if its fixed for others which i haven't heard of whats the point of an alliance 

Edited March 3, 2021 by hillavoider

[BernardC]

19 hours ago, hillavoider said:

this still happens with native lenses i'm afraid

Others report that the warning only shows-up when the battery is truly depleted (less than 25% remaining). Does the warning show-up with a nearly-full battery on your SL2?

[hillavoider]

6 hours ago, BernardC said:

Others report that the warning only shows-up when the battery is truly depleted (less than 25% remaining). Does the warning show-up with a nearly-full battery on your SL2?

i'll try out 4k again, i haven't used 4k since november last year. The 2.0 update was july. 

 

ok you are right, with the 35SL lens right on 25% the error came up. I have had this happen with a full battery, must have used my sigma lens back in november. So L mount alliance is pretty useless. 

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Edited March 5, 2021 by hillavoider

[LD_50]

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3 hours ago, hillavoider said:

i'll try out 4k again, i haven't used 4k since november last year. The 2.0 update was july. 

 

ok you are right, with the 35SL lens right on 25% the error came up. I have had this happen with a full battery, must have used my sigma lens back in november. So L mount alliance is pretty useless. 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

The L mount alliance is useless because of a problem you had with one feature on one camera body? 

I’ve been shooting a Sigma 105 macro on my SL2-S. The AFL button on the lens doesn’t seem to have any function. The alliance is still pretty useful. If I got the 4K error with this lens, it would still be pretty useful for other purposes. 
 

Similarly, I’ve read a standout feature of Sony’s new A1, the 30 FPS burst, doesn’t work with all lenses, and likely none other than Sony’s. The open mount standard is still pretty useful for a number of other purposes. 
 

Also- I’m not justifying the error with the SL2. It should work in video mode with all the L mount lenses without a crippling error. I just don’t see that error making the alliance useless. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by LD_50

[hillavoider]

10 minutes ago, LD_50 said:

The L mount alliance is useless because of a problem you had with one feature on one camera body? 

I’ve been shooting a Sigma 105 macro on my SL2-S. The AFL button on the lens doesn’t seem to have any function. The alliance is still pretty useful. If I got the 4K error with this lens, it would still be pretty useful for other purposes. 
 

Similarly, I’ve read a standout feature of Sony’s new A1, the 30 FPS burst, doesn’t work with all lenses, and likely none other than Sony’s. The open mount standard is still pretty useful for a number of other purposes. 
 

Also- I’m not justifying the error with the SL2. It should work in video mode with all the L mount lenses without a crippling error. I just don’t see that error making the alliance useless. 

OK, pretty useless for video or burst shooting then..... jeeez  people are so touchy with any criticism of leica 

[LD_50]

25 minutes ago, hillavoider said:

OK, pretty useless for video or burst shooting then..... jeeez  people are so touchy with any criticism of leica 

I’m not touchy about criticism of Leica. I also think they should fix the error you mentioned as well as improve a number of their cameras, their support, and their communication strategy. 

I don’t understand the purpose of the hyperbole and rhetoric, in this case stating multiple times the L-mount alliance is useless because of one feature not working properly. It’s clearly useful in a number of ways. 

[Mr.Q]

For SL users, the L-mount alliance is nothing more than what Sony is doing with their open mount, but limiting it to 2 manufacturers.  I'm not sure if useless is the correct term, but if they aren't checking if the lenses work properly with their cameras, it certainly is a weak alliance and does not fulfill it's initial promise of "improved firmware and full compatibility."

[LD_50]

1 minute ago, Mr.Q said:

For SL users, the L-mount alliance is nothing more than what Sony is doing with their open mount, but limiting it to 2 manufacturers.  I'm not sure if useless is the correct term, but if they aren't checking if the lenses work properly with their cameras, it certainly is a weak alliance and does not fulfill it's initial promise of "improved firmware and full compatibility."

The L mount alliance, while limited to three manufacturers, allows one thing Sony’s open mount doesn’t, the use of alternate brand bodies without adapter. I don’t think that is insignificant and certainly isn’t useless.

Is there a list available of lenses that don’t work properly? I’m only aware of the battery level issue with SL2, though since I don’t shoot one I don’t know what exactly the current state of the issue is. Beyond that I’m missing the functionality of the AFL button on my Sigma lens, though I wouldn’t use it anyway.  

[Simone_DF]

You can add OIS on Panasonic lenses not working on SL bodies to the list of missed L-Alliance opportunities

[BernardC]

To be clear, IS works with Panasonic lenses, but the choice of IS method (OIS or IBIS) is greyed-out in the menu. It would be interesting to test this: same lens, SL2 and S1H (to keep megapixels the same), and see if the Panasonic has noticeably better vibration mitigation.

[Tom1234]

On 3/3/2021 at 7:45 AM, Steven said:

Debatable. And vague. What do you include in the IQ? The colour science too? 

As many of us, I have many cameras and many camera systems. I am probably the first and only person on this forum to own the Leica SL2-S and the Sony A1. Besides build quality and joy of use, my A1 is far superior to my SL2-S in every single aspect, except ONE. The A1 can do everything that my SL2S can do, better, and faster. And it can do MANY things that my SL2S cannot even dream of considering to do. But there is one thing it cannot do: deliver the same IQ. 

By IQ, I mean everything that is involved in the final result that I see (on a computer screen): it cannot compete with the 3D depth and micro-contrast I get out of the Leica. It cannot compete with the colours that I get out of the Leica, neither SOOC, nor once edited in LR. And the lenses that I mount on the A1 cannot compete with the lenses I could mount on the SL2S. My two favourite sony lenses are the Zeiss 55 1.8 and the newest 35mm 1.4 GM. None of those come close, in IQ, to the SL 35 APO. 

Back to your statement. Yes, all cameras can deliver great IQ today. Even a 500 dollars camera. But all cameras are not equal in IQ. Leicas, with their lenses lineups, are in another league as Sonys, Canons, and even Fujis. This barely subjective, sorry. I know people will think I'm an extremist by saying that, but as always, I accept to be challenged on this statement, with a good old classic blindest. 

A1 + 35GM vs. SL2S + SL35APO. Throw anything you want at me, SOOC, and I'll get a perfect score. In every scenario, the SL2S combo will be superior in IQ

 

Many thanks for your input.  You get A+ obviously. Four out of four.  I am looking into a new SL2-S.

[Archiver]

On 3/3/2021 at 6:26 PM, Mr.Q said:

Well interpreting the word literally, extreme would mean "furthest from the centre or a given point"

Positive Extreme
1. Best in class EVF
2. Great image quality
3. Great build quality
4. Best platform to adapt Leica legacy lenses
5. Good ergonomics/haptics (subjective)

Negative Extreme
1. Expensive
2. Largest and heaviest
3. Slowest AF
4. Fewest selection of native lenses (as in Leica lenses, ie reason to buy into SL system)
5. Flash/strobe support
6. Lack of tilting screen (subjective)

Objectively, it's a polarizing camera.
If you don't agree, that may be the reason why you feel the discussions are polarizing.

You just summed up the reasons why I want to get into the SL system, and the reasons why I still hesitate! If you remove the 'Leica' from the equation, the same positives can be found in the Nikon Z6 and Z7, and many of the negatives aren't valid. The extra cost of XQD cards, which bugs me to all heck, is a drop in the bucket compared with the costs of buying a SL2/S and native L mount glass, Leica or otherwise. The main area that the Nikon Z system lacks is choice of native lenses, but more are on the horizon, and the FTZ adapter gives access to Nikon's best DSLR lenses. Not to make this all about Nikon, but if we're going on the positives and negatives of the SL system, there's much to recommend Nikon as a much lower cost alternative.

I would feel far more comfortable entering the SL system if it had autofocus like Canon or Sony. I am increasingly shooting more and more sports, and good AF is a must. TBH, a Sony A1 or A9 with just a 24-70, 70-200 and 50/1.4 would do everything I need from a photographic standpoint. As much as I love Panasonic, they lag significantly in AF, and the S1 is heavier than the Leica SL2. Canon is great, and shares many of the positives of the Nikon Z system.

For a fully hybrid system, I wouldn't shoot with Leica for the simple lack of any kind of tilting screen. It's useful when taking stills, and nearly mandatory when shooting video. The sheer relief of getting a camera with a swivel screen, after shooting video with the fixed screen 5D Mark II, was immense. While I could use a monitor with the SL2-S, I don't want to add even more bulk to what is already a large camera. I recently shot my Panasonic G9 alongside a guy with his rigged-out Panasonic EVA 1 cinema camera. His setup weighed almost three times what mine did. No way do I want anything like that.

[Tom1234]

Great analysis.  

Good to know about the importance of tilt screen. Yes on a tripod you need one to see the screen as you stand above the camera - all video cameras should have it… mandatory or you are forced to an external monitor-recorder. 

[LD_50]

39 minutes ago, Archiver said:

You just summed up the reasons why I want to get into the SL system, and the reasons why I still hesitate! If you remove the 'Leica' from the equation, the same positives can be found in the Nikon Z6 and Z7, and many of the negatives aren't valid. The extra cost of XQD cards, which bugs me to all heck, is a drop in the bucket compared with the costs of buying a SL2/S and native L mount glass, Leica or otherwise. The main area that the Nikon Z system lacks is choice of native lenses, but more are on the horizon, and the FTZ adapter gives access to Nikon's best DSLR lenses. Not to make this all about Nikon, but if we're going on the positives and negatives of the SL system, there's much to recommend Nikon as a much lower cost alternative.

I would feel far more comfortable entering the SL system if it had autofocus like Canon or Sony. I am increasingly shooting more and more sports, and good AF is a must. TBH, a Sony A1 or A9 with just a 24-70, 70-200 and 50/1.4 would do everything I need from a photographic standpoint. As much as I love Panasonic, they lag significantly in AF, and the S1 is heavier than the Leica SL2. Canon is great, and shares many of the positives of the Nikon Z system.

For a fully hybrid system, I wouldn't shoot with Leica for the simple lack of any kind of tilting screen. It's useful when taking stills, and nearly mandatory when shooting video. The sheer relief of getting a camera with a swivel screen, after shooting video with the fixed screen 5D Mark II, was immense. While I could use a monitor with the SL2-S, I don't want to add even more bulk to what is already a large camera. I recently shot my Panasonic G9 alongside a guy with his rigged-out Panasonic EVA 1 cinema camera. His setup weighed almost three times what mine did. No way do I want anything like that.

If you’ve found a system that works for you, go for it. The Leica name increases the price but doesn’t improve the camera’s capabilities. 

[Mr.Q]

32 minutes ago, Archiver said:

You just summed up the reasons why I want to get into the SL system, and the reasons why I still hesitate! If you remove the 'Leica' from the equation, the same positives can be found in the Nikon Z6 and Z7, and many of the negatives aren't valid. The extra cost of XQD cards, which bugs me to all heck, is a drop in the bucket compared with the costs of buying a SL2/S and native L mount glass, Leica or otherwise. The main area that the Nikon Z system lacks is choice of native lenses, but more are on the horizon, and the FTZ adapter gives access to Nikon's best DSLR lenses. Not to make this all about Nikon, but if we're going on the positives and negatives of the SL system, there's much to recommend Nikon as a much lower cost alternative.

I would feel far more comfortable entering the SL system if it had autofocus like Canon or Sony. I am increasingly shooting more and more sports, and good AF is a must. TBH, a Sony A1 or A9 with just a 24-70, 70-200 and 50/1.4 would do everything I need from a photographic standpoint. As much as I love Panasonic, they lag significantly in AF, and the S1 is heavier than the Leica SL2. Canon is great, and shares many of the positives of the Nikon Z system.

For a fully hybrid system, I wouldn't shoot with Leica for the simple lack of any kind of tilting screen. It's useful when taking stills, and nearly mandatory when shooting video. The sheer relief of getting a camera with a swivel screen, after shooting video with the fixed screen 5D Mark II, was immense. While I could use a monitor with the SL2-S, I don't want to add even more bulk to what is already a large camera. I recently shot my Panasonic G9 alongside a guy with his rigged-out Panasonic EVA 1 cinema camera. His setup weighed almost three times what mine did. No way do I want anything like that.

Unless you 1) really value it's haptics, or 2) own existing R and M lenses, I feel it's hard to justify purchasing the SL2 new in 2021.  The bottom line is that you need to shoot with SL lenses to maximize it's IQ.  If you plan on purchasing 3rd party L-mount lenses, there are better options --- you can get the same or similar quality lenses for other systems as well.  Quite frankly, the sensor and AF tech is 2 generations behind the current crop of FF cameras (worse than A7R III), so like I said, you need to really, really like the positives.

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[Tom1234]

On 3/3/2021 at 7:50 AM, Steven said:

P.S. the ONLY things that my A1 can do that I wish my SL2S could do are: 

- Tilt screen (not flip out like the A7SIII, I hate that). 

- Brighter monitor in sunlight

- Good AFc performance with video 

- Option to close the GODDAMN shutter when changing lenses. 

If Leica can give me this, I swear in front of witnesses to not buy a new camera for one decade. 

Steve, how about battery life?  For stills and video?  There is a debate going about in this thread. Bet you know...

[Slender]

Ah, hot weather makes the battery perfom less well? For me that would be a "cold" scenario... interesting.