Very old A36 lens cap

[Pecole]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

This plastic lens cap, with velvet covered interior and old-fashioned Leica logo on front, was found on the Elmax lens of Leica I (A) nº1088.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

      

[alan mcfall]

Interesting.  I have many of the black plastic caps that look like this on the outside, but only have the velvet on the inside rim, not everywhere. Maybe this is an early version.

I have never seen anything indicating that the Leitz plastic caps were used as early as the elmax. My experience was that metal caps were the norm until the 1930's. Not until the 1936 catalog can I find lens caps available separately, with individual codes,  and they are labeled, "black enamelled or chrome". The 1937 and 39 catalogs are the same.  So, I don't really know a specific date when the plastic lens cap was first available.

I assume that sometime after 1939, the larger black plastic cap was available for the Summitar. Also, likely pre-war we see the black plastic camera body cap. Both are shown below. I have heard that the Brownie Baby 1934 was one of the first extensive use of bakelite in cameras, maybe lens caps were available before then. Hopefully, a forum member can set the record straight and we will know a more exact date for these caps.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[willeica]

2 hours ago, alan mcfall said:

I have heard that the Brownie Baby 1934 was one of the first extensive use of bakelite in cameras, maybe lens caps were available before then.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

The Kochmann Korelle K from 1932, some examples of which had Leitz Elmar lenses, is an all Bakelite camera.

William 

[Pecole]

5 hours ago, alan mcfall said:

Interesting.  I have many of the black plastic caps that look like this on the outside, but only have the velvet on the inside rim, not everywhere. Maybe this is an early version.

I have never seen anything indicating that the Leitz plastic caps were used as early as the elmax. My experience was that metal caps were the norm until the 1930's. Not until the 1936 catalog can I find lens caps available separately, with individual codes,  and they are labeled, "black enamelled or chrome". The 1937 and 39 catalogs are the same.  So, I don't really know a specific date when the plastic lens cap was first available.

I assume that sometime after 1939, the larger black plastic cap was available for the Summitar. Also, likely pre-war we see the black plastic camera body cap. Both are shown below. I have heard that the Brownie Baby 1934 was one of the first extensive use of bakelite in cameras, maybe lens caps were available before then. Hopefully, a forum member can set the record straight and we will know a more exact date for these caps.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Thank you for your long comment, Alan. I also thought that early caps were metal, and it is the reason why I wrote prudently "was found on...". I also had quite a lot of old flat metal caps like the one illustrated below, and another thin (metallic) cap fully covered with velvet inside (second illustration).

              

[willeica]

Here is the Kochmann Korelle K Bakelite camera with a rare special Leitz Elmar 3.5 cm and matching Bakelite cap. This will feature in a forthcoming article in the LHSA Viewfinder magazine. This article, by Claus Walter,  originally appeared in the German Historical Society VIDOM magazine and I have arranged to have it translated for Viewfinder. The article will also feature the even more rare 7.5cm Elmar, of which only one or two were made. One example of the 7.5 cm lens is in the Leica Archives/Museum. This is one of the rarest of all Leitz lenses and it appears in the Museum Leica book by Lars Netopil. Even more rare is the 5cm Elmar version of the camera, which may be a true Unicorn Camera/Lens combination. It had been advertised in the 1930s, but one has never been seen. I have a Korelle K with a 5cm lens from a Nagel fitted, but it is not what was intended as it should be in a mount similar to that of the 3.5 cm example below. Lars agrees with me about this.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

William

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by willeica

[Pecole]

48 minutes ago, willeica said:

Here is the Kochmann Korelle K Bakelite camera with a rare special Leitz Elmar 3.5 cm and matching Bakelite cap. This will feature in a forthcoming article in the LHSA Viewfinder magazine. This article, by Claus Walter,  originally appeared in the German Historical Society VIDOM magazine and I have arranged to have it translated for Viewfinder. The article will also feature the even more rare 7.5cm Elmar, of which only one or two were made. One example of the 7.5 cm lens is in the Leica Archives/Museum. This is one of the rarest of all Leitz lenses and it appears in the Museum Leica book by Lars Netopil. Even more rare is the 5cm Elmar version of the camera, which may be a true Unicorn Camera/Lens combination. It had been advertised in the 1930s, but one has never been seen. I have a Korelle K with a 5cm lens from a Nagel fitted, but it is not what was intended as it should be in a mount similar to that of the 3.5 cm example below. Lars agrees with me about this.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

William

 

48 minutes ago, willeica said:

Here is the Kochmann Korelle K Bakelite camera with a rare special Leitz Elmar 3.5 cm and matching Bakelite cap. This will feature in a forthcoming article in the LHSA Viewfinder magazine. This article, by Claus Walter,  originally appeared in the German Historical Society VIDOM magazine and I have arranged to have it translated for Viewfinder. The article will also feature the even more rare 7.5cm Elmar, of which only one or two were made. One example of the 7.5 cm lens is in the Leica Archives/Museum. This is one of the rarest of all Leitz lenses and it appears in the Museum Leica book by Lars Netopil. Even more rare is the 5cm Elmar version of the camera, which may be a true Unicorn Camera/Lens combination. It had been advertised in the 1930s, but one has never been seen. I have a Korelle K with a 5cm lens from a Nagel fitted, but it is not what was intended as it should be in a mount similar to that of the 3.5 cm example below. Lars agrees with me about this.

 

there are definitely marvels to discover daily in the photographic world !

Pierre

 

 

 

 

 

[PG Black nickel]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I was always told that the Leica lens cap was covered with red velvet and if it was another color it wasn't Leica material ?

[willeica]

1 hour ago, PG Black nickel said:

I was always told that the Leica lens cap was covered with red velvet and if it was another color it wasn't Leica material ?

Do you understand the term 'old wives' tale'?

William

[PG Black nickel]

the old woman's name was "Peter Coeln" do you know?

[willeica]

14 minutes ago, PG Black nickel said:

the old woman's name was "Peter Coeln" do you know?

Yes, I have met Peter and was a customer of his for many years until he sold his business to Dr Kaufmann. Leica lens caps were, effectively, ' consumables' and there is little describing them in any Leica literature, including period catalogues. They consist of many different types and styles and I have most of them, but there is no chronological consistency over time and it is impossible to say exactly what year any cap relates to. I have caps with red (most common) or black felt or no felt inside the lid and also around the inside edge of the cap. Telling which is and which is not made by Leica/Leitz is difficult and cannot be done with any great degree of certainty. In many ways they are like the ever ready cases which show considerable variation over time. I have discussed this with Jim Lager and we both agreed that many style variations were due to who was on the job or in charge during a particular week. Using old stocks of parts was also a feature. Examples of this include variations in the decoration and printing of Leica/Leitz names on leather cases and also the existence of both vertical and horizontal sharkskin to use up the ends of rolls of that type of covering. 

Here is a very small selection of my caps and some hoods. The one on the right is not a lens cap, of course, and it was not made by Leica/Leitz, but can you tell me where it came from?

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

William

[PG Black nickel]

I had a very early elmar without number with a lens cap with a vulcanite coating and black velvet inside, I was sure it was a Leica lens cap, I had presented it to Peter Coeln, that's when he told me that we recognize the Leica models because it "always" had red velvet inside ... it was still Mr. Coeln ... Obviously I listened and took into account his explanation..

No I can't say where it comes from but I'm sure I'll be surprised when you tell me. I feel like it's a body cap?

 

[willeica]

I think you need to take the 'smaller' items such as caps, cases, straps etc, more lightly. Looking for 'correctness' 90 years later is a nugatory task. Leica/Leitz was very much a craft company in those days and a lot of variation arises in such items. Also, if you read the Richter/Fricke book on Barnack you will see that he, as head of the Leica project, was constantly testing and making changes to improve the product. Lens caps were not perceived as items that required much attention. Looking at the UK Leica General Catalogue for 1933, lens caps are listed under "Small Items' and are described as 'embossed' and as 'also fitting the lens with filter screwed into position' and were sold for the sum of 2 shillings and sixpence. 

The cap on the right is a body cap from an RAF Reid I. I believe that the thick aluminium body cap painted black on the front was made by Reid for the RAF. It certainly would have been easier to handle it with a gloved hand. I bought the camera and cap at auction from, you've guessed it, Peter Coeln. The listing made no mention of the body cap. 

William

[Pyrogallol]

I have a nice little A36 size black leather lens cap, black inside. Not likely to be Leica but someone else had a lens front in A36 size.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[PG Black nickel]

I had a very early elmar without number with a lens cap with a vulcanite coating and black velvet inside, I was sure it was a Leica lens cap, I had presented it to Peter Coeln, that's when he told me that we recognize the Leica models because it "always" had red velvet inside ... it was still Mr. Coeln ... Obviously I listened and took into account his explanation..

No I can't say where it comes from but I'm sure I'll be surprised when you tell me. I feel like it's a body cap?

 

[PG Black nickel]

It was the same on my Elmar !!! So there are at least 2 of them ...were they lens caps from other brands ? But at that time who else was making 36mm lenses ?

[willeica]

I have similar caps on my Welta Perfekta folding TLR for the Meyer Gorling lenses. One of the caps is marked Meyer. I am not suggesting that the cap shown above is from Meyer, just hinting that there were a lot of similar designs and techniques and exchanges in the German photographic equipment industry around that time. Leitz was involved in that 'inter-trade' for a short period and then went its own way as the success of its products took off.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

William

 

[Pecole]

17 hours ago, PG Black nickel said:

I was always told that the Leica lens cap was covered with red velvet and if it was another color it wasn't Leica material ?

Never heard that "red" story...

[pgk]

FWIW and slightly off topic (as was willeica's Reid body cap), if I remember correctly from the time when I worked at R G Lewis, around 1980, there were R G Lewis LTM body caps still in stock (probably from the 1950/60s). There were beautifully textured and well made chromed brass caps, well up to the standards associated with Leica and must have been made for the company, most probably in Britain and most likely locally (London somewhere). They had no markings on them at all but the quality was such that I would say that they could easily have been mistaken for being one of Leica's own built body caps. In the 1950s and '60s and even up into the '80s there were a lot of small engineering firms which could make small batches of high quality items. I suspect that the same was true in other countries. Most have now gone and it is increasingly difficult to find such businesses as everything is based on auto-milling and suchlike and the watchwords are throughput and quantity.

[willeica]

30 minutes ago, pgk said:

as was willeica's Reid body cap)

Not as off topic as you might think , Paul. Firstly it was bought from Peter Coeln, the 'giver' of the red felt advice, secondly it was probably made by Reid for the RAF , even though it was not marked Reid, and thirdly it just happened to be in the photo with some rare Leica caps! One that has not been mentioned so far is the second from the right item which is a so called 'thin cap' for the rear of a lens which dates from the early 1930s. These were dropped in favour of deeper rear caps when rangefinder coupling came in. Mine came with a standardised , but uncoupled, Elmar 13.5 cm lens. At least with the rear caps there is generally no felt to discuss.

I agree that some third party items were of a much better quality than Leica/Leitz items. I don't base my purchases on 'correct' caps or other accessories, but I do note them in auction listings. Some third party accessories go for quite tidy sums such as the Meyer Megoflex. Leica/Leitz often decided that it would not try to do what third parties could do better and those items were often supplied by Leica/Leitz dealers. 

William

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear