Have the Leica Q & Nikon Z6. Is the SL2-S a Single Camera Solution?

[lencap]

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Greetings -

I've owned an original Q for several years, admittedly not shooting it much.  I love the compact design, ability to shoot manually or automated, along with choice of auto, manual or zone focus depending on what I deem will work best.  The downside is the 28mm focal length, not ideal for capturing active grandchildren or other family gathering type events.

To address those needs I bought a Nikon Z6 with the standard 24-70 F/4.0 zoom.  My thought process was simple - the Q will handle the wide shots with traditional Leica quality and feel, the Nikon giving me longer focal length options, IBIS, weather sealing and the ability to adapt other than Z mounts to the camera.  The Z6 kit was relatively reasonable in cost as well.  What I've learned since I bought it is what brought me to Leica in the first place.  I strongly dislike the Z6 controls, especially the PASM dial, incredible number of menus/submenus, and the "feel" of the camera compared to Leica.  It seems as if I've succumbed to Leica's marketing - I do like the haptics Leica provides more than any other brand.

Having said that, the combination of the Q and Z6 still makes sense, and avoids "investing" more money into a retirement hobby that isn't an everyday activity.  To be frank, owning a Leica is enjoyable even if I don't use it daily it sits on my desk and I enjoy looking at it.  I've owned a M7, M9 and M-A in the past, and for one reason or another sold each of them, telling myself that I don't shoot often and having funds tied up in the gear was kind of silly.  That may be true, but every time I pick up my Z6 I wish I had any of my old Leica cameras back.  Truth be told, the M cameras didn't work for grandchildren.  Those little guys move quickly, get out of range of 28/50 lens combos, have difficulty with rapidly changing indoor lighting and with my senior citizen eyesight don't work for focal lengths beyond 75mm.  

I was considering moving to the SL and trading in both the Q and the Z6, but the issues are: (1) I prefer the lighter weight of the M camera/lens; (2) I really like the depth of field markings for zone focus on the M lenses as well as the Q and I think I'll miss them on Leica SL glass; (3) I don't shoot video and prefer a camera without that feature; (4) the SL system is far heavier/larger than the Q, along with expensive native glass costs.  

Despite the challenges the SL2-S seems like a pretty versatile tool, and it intrigues me.  The other choice is to consider the Hasselblad X1dii starting with the 45mm f/4.0 lens (a compromise between the 28/50 primes), and also allowing cropping to the equivalent of longer 75-90 focal lengths.  

I don't want to have to make changes more than once, so I want to get this decision correct the first time.  What say thee?

  - Keep what I have, investing more time to learn the systems to avoid getting lost in menus when I'm trying to compose and frame my shots, along with picking which camera is best for a situation?

  - Move to the SL2-S, despite the new learning curve, higher glass costs, and having a considerably heavier/bulkier setup?

  - Jump to the X1dii, taking advantage of the larger sensor that may provide the ability to selectively crop when necessary to get the framing I desire while sticking with a one lens solution?

  - Something else? - What do you suggest?   (I considered the CL line, but I think mentally I'd have a hard time with a cropped sensor, whether that's rational or not).

Thank you in advance for the help.

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[ravinj]

Keep what you have.

Z6 is a great imaging machine and complements the Q very well. In 2019, my Z6 with the Z 24-70 fell into a thermal pool in Yellowstone and survived. There is little practical difference in IQ b/w Z6 vs other 24MP cameras and the Z lenses are as good as any without costing an arm and a leg. At least they don't cost an arm AND a leg. In fact, the Z 24-70 F4 s my fav Z lens. Despite the "kit" lens label it is jewel of a lens - compact and high IQ.  For longer FLs, I have the AF-P 70-300 with FTZ and despite the low price tag, it gives results that are very very good, comparable to zooms costing 4x more.   Z6 also works very well with adapted lenses including Leica R lenses.

Z6 + Leica Elmarit-R 180 APO, hand-held, thanks to IBIS. The details are stunning (click for larger size):

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Z6 also works fine with a lot of M lenses, this one with Zeiss ZM 85 F4:

Q is no slouch either and a perfect hiking companion:

 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by ravinj

[lencap]

Ravinj -

Thank  you for taking the time to post such a helpful reply - it’s most appreciated.  I hadn’t considered the potential of Leica R glass for the Z6.  Your images showed me that there is a lot of potential in what I already have that I haven’t yet realized.

You’ve given me a wonderful new perspective to consider.  Thank you again!

Edited January 20, 2021 by lencap

[ravinj]

I would be selective in purchasing Leica R glass today. Some of them like R 80-200 are not worth it. The two APO Elmarits - 100mm APO Macro and 180mm are both excellent and can be had for good prices if you look around. In general, I prefer using native mount lenses. Obviously if you already have R glass then go for it. Good luck with your journey.

[lencap]

Thanks again for the followup info.  The only Z lens I have is the zoom, which works well most of the time for what I typically shoot.  I'll likely add a longer focal length Z lens, but before I do I'll take the time to learn what I have.  That's clearly the issue (and I've commented about it in other posts).  That's why I enjoy the Q so much, and why I miss my previous Leica cameras.   Wonderful haptics, easy to use and offering a great range of manual/automatic options.  To me the Q is like a single lens SL.

I remain very impressed with your image composition and technical skills.  Thanks for sharing.

Stay well.

Edited January 20, 2021 by lencap

[LocalHero1953]

I think you should get over your concern about the CL and cropped sensors. You say you want an AF camera for your grandchildren and other family social events. Now to get the highest possible image quality, you want not just the best sensors and lenses, but also the time, occasion and lighting to actually achieve that IQ.

In the real world.........

Your grandchildren are running around, so you need equipment you can use quickly and easily i.e. not too large and heavy. They will also be distracted if you start waving around a large black object with a big glassy eye on the front, and holding it up to block out your familiar face. Family and social moments can also be made more stilted by the presence of the family photographer with his pro-looking kit, and may freeze, not relax.

My suggestion: accept that you are not going to get the technically perfect image, whatever camera you use, and that the most useful camera is one that is not distracting in social moments, is small, light and discreet. For these times, the timing, subject and composition are more important than IQ. The CL fits this bill in the Leica family.

I have the SL (now SL2-S) and the CL. After some early trials, I would never now use the SL for family and social unless they are posed portraits/groups, and especially not for children. My best shots of my grandchildren have been with cameras that they have not noticed (and that includes the M).

[jaapv]

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10 hours ago, lencap said:

Greetings -

I've owned an original Q for several years, admittedly not shooting it much.  I love the compact design, ability to shoot manually or automated, along with choice of auto, manual or zone focus depending on what I deem will work best.  The downside is the 28mm focal length, not ideal for capturing active grandchildren or other family gathering type events.

To address those needs I bought a Nikon Z6 with the standard 24-70 F/4.0 zoom.  My thought process was simple - the Q will handle the wide shots with traditional Leica quality and feel, the Nikon giving me longer focal length options, IBIS, weather sealing and the ability to adapt other than Z mounts to the camera.  The Z6 kit was relatively reasonable in cost as well.  What I've learned since I bought it is what brought me to Leica in the first place.  I strongly dislike the Z6 controls, especially the PASM dial, incredible number of menus/submenus, and the "feel" of the camera compared to Leica.  It seems as if I've succumbed to Leica's marketing - I do like the haptics Leica provides more than any other brand.

Having said that, the combination of the Q and Z6 still makes sense, and avoids "investing" more money into a retirement hobby that isn't an everyday activity.  To be frank, owning a Leica is enjoyable even if I don't use it daily it sits on my desk and I enjoy looking at it.  I've owned a M7, M9 and M-A in the past, and for one reason or another sold each of them, telling myself that I don't shoot often and having funds tied up in the gear was kind of silly.  That may be true, but every time I pick up my Z6 I wish I had any of my old Leica cameras back.  Truth be told, the M cameras didn't work for grandchildren.  Those little guys move quickly, get out of range of 28/50 lens combos, have difficulty with rapidly changing indoor lighting and with my senior citizen eyesight don't work for focal lengths beyond 75mm.  

I was considering moving to the SL and trading in both the Q and the Z6, but the issues are: (1) I prefer the lighter weight of the M camera/lens; (2) I really like the depth of field markings for zone focus on the M lenses as well as the Q and I think I'll miss them on Leica SL glass; (3) I don't shoot video and prefer a camera without that feature; (4) the SL system is far heavier/larger than the Q, along with expensive native glass costs.  

Despite the challenges the SL2-S seems like a pretty versatile tool, and it intrigues me.  The other choice is to consider the Hasselblad X1dii starting with the 45mm f/4.0 lens (a compromise between the 28/50 primes), and also allowing cropping to the equivalent of longer 75-90 focal lengths.  

I don't want to have to make changes more than once, so I want to get this decision correct the first time.  What say thee?

  - Keep what I have, investing more time to learn the systems to avoid getting lost in menus when I'm trying to compose and frame my shots, along with picking which camera is best for a situation?

  - Move to the SL2-S, despite the new learning curve, higher glass costs, and having a considerably heavier/bulkier setup?

  - Jump to the X1dii, taking advantage of the larger sensor that may provide the ability to selectively crop when necessary to get the framing I desire while sticking with a one lens solution?

  - Something else? - What do you suggest?   (I considered the CL line, but I think mentally I'd have a hard time with a cropped sensor, whether that's rational or not).

Thank you in advance for the help.

If you are bugged by cropped sensors - get an S3. The same drawbacks as the SL in bulk but better image quality. If you want an universal camera that handles easily in your shooting situation and has an image quality that is hard to distinguis from the SL, get the CL.

[frame-it]

11 hours ago, lencap said:

incredible number of menus/submenus,

Once / IF its setup correctly with shortcuts assigned to certain buttons, then why do you need to dive into the menus ?

[OR120]

10 hours ago, ravinj said:

Keep what you have.

Z6 is a great imaging machine and complements the Q very well. In 2019, my Z6 with the Z 24-70 fell into a thermal pool in Yellowstone and survived. There is little practical difference in IQ b/w Z6 vs other 24MP cameras and the Z lenses are as good as any without costing an arm and a leg. At least they don't cost an arm AND a leg. In fact, the Z 24-70 F4 s my fav Z lens. Despite the "kit" lens label it is jewel of a lens - compact and high IQ.  For longer FLs, I have the AF-P 70-300 with FTZ and despite the low price tag, it gives results that are very very good, comparable to zooms costing 4x more.   Z6 also works very well with adapted lenses including Leica R lenses.

Z6 + Leica Elmarit-R 180 APO, hand-held, thanks to IBIS. The details are stunning (click for larger size):

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Z6 also works fine with a lot of M lenses, this one with Zeiss ZM 85 F4:

Q is no slouch either and a perfect hiking companion:

 

 

Beautiful Photos!

[lencap]

Thanks to all for the comments, much appreciated.  The challenge for me, as some have commented upon, is that capturing rapidly moving grandchildren requires a different shooting style compared to landscape and "artsy" photos.  That difference makes it difficult to find a "one camera does all" solution.  The cropped format cameras with somewhat limited depth of field may be better suited to "family" events, and a full frame sensor with a wide EV range may be better suited for other uses.  That's what is creating the confusion in my selection thoughts.  The Q is a great camera for certain uses, but capturing grandchildren 20 feet away isn't one of them.  The Z is a better tool for that use, but the Z with an f/4.0 aperture zoom won't easily capture the depth of field bokeh that a fast lens can achieve.  Add to that the desire for a "one lens" kit and light weight means that there will be compromise.  I'm just trying to figure out how much compromise and what the "best" options may be.  Thanks for the help as I try to work through this.

 

[beewee]

I know this is a Leica camera forum but have you considered the iPhone 12 Pro Max? I have the 12 Pro and it has an amazing camera that works great in low light. The wide (23mm equiv) is very sharp and I can shoot handheld for 2-3s in the dark. The standard lens is also quite good (50mm equiv on Pro and 65mm equiv on Pro Max). For family and social, it is the most unobtrusive camera and it is always with me in my pocket, always on, and anyone can figure out how to use it.

[lencap]

Thanks for the iPhone suggestion, but I like the ability to use manual controls when shooting.  That’s something of a challenge with an iPhone.

[beewee]

13 hours ago, lencap said:

Thanks for the iPhone suggestion, but I like the ability to use manual controls when shooting.  That’s something of a challenge with an iPhone.

Have you tried Halide? It gives you quite a bit of manual control for stills. Filmic is great for video.

[Daniel81]

I've been using R glass with my SL - and now SL2-S with truly exceptional results and experience.  I have shopped carefully over a few years and found late models (serial numbers as close to or beyond 39xxxx as possible), in near mint to mint condition with ROM - and with the Leica R-L adaptor.  I now have in my collection the 50 Lux, 80 Lux, 100 Macro Elmarit, 180 Elmarit.  They are all fantastic, the shooting experience  and the results on the SL body are remarkable.  Focus peaking makes the manual focusing especially easy and effective.