M10-D or MD 262 + 50 summilux

[Murdog]

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Hi,

Just a little background first... I am an amateur street photographer and solely shoot street. I currently own a Leica M7, which has been my main camera for 3 years and this will be first move to digital.

I really love how engaged I am in the moment while shooting film, so I wanted to hang onto that experience, which is why I have chosen the screenless option. Although I love the process of shooting film, I mainly shoot at night where I lack high ISO and sometimes I get lazy when it comes to developing. 

My current lenses are  a 28mm Elmarit and a Voigtlander 35 1.4. 28mm being my favourite length. 

I will be buying used and my heart was set on an M10-D but while looking online, for the same money I could buy an MD 262 plus a 50 summilux for the same price. A 50 being a lens I have been hoping to buy in the future as I feel the 35 is too close to the lens I shoot most, the 28.

So just looking for suggestions, or maybe someone who upgraded from a 240/D262 to an M10/D. Or even someone coming from film. (I will still keep my M7) 

Any help would be great, thanks.

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[poli]

Hi Murdog,

i have upgraded abt 2 years ago from the M-D type 262 to an M10--D. I guess you know what the differences are between the cameras, so I do not think I need to explain that. I guess it boils down to how much you want the Summilux. If you really love to have that lens, I'd say go for the MD262 plus Summilux.

Last year I was wondering myself why I actually upgraded to the M10-D. However... a while ago I could borrow an M246 for the weekend (same body form factor as the MD 262 and same viewfinder). I realised I was spoilt by the M10-D. the body is thinner (and I really like that) and the viewfinder is better (and when you go back to the older one you do notice). So in retrospect I do not regret the upgrade and if I ever go to a monochrome, I will definitely go for the M10M. 

 

Plusses of the MD 262 over the M10-D are:

-battery life (although battery life of the M10-D is never an issue for me)

-iso button better placed (in my opion)

-even simpeler lay out

-handier on/off button

 

Pluses of the M10-D over the 262:

- better high iso

- thumblever (didn't expect beforehand, but I really enjoy that one!)

- better viewfinder

- body form factor more in line with your m7

- and between brackets because I think it is both a plus AND a minus (WIFI option, foto app to setup camera)

Hope this helps!

Edited January 3, 2021 by poli

[Murdog]

52 minutes ago, poli said:

Hi Murdog,

i have upgraded abt 2 years ago from the M-D type 262 to an M10--D. I guess you know what the differences are between the cameras, so I do not think I need to explain that. I guess it boils down to how much you want the Summilux. If you really love to have that lens, I'd say go for the MD262 plus Summilux.

Last year I was wondering myself why I actually upgraded to the M10-D. However... a while ago I could borrow an M246 for the weekend (same body form factor as the MD 262 and same viewfinder). I realised I was spoilt by the M10-D. the body is thinner (and I really like that) and the viewfinder is better (and when you go back to the older one you do notice). So in retrospect I do not regret the upgrade and if I ever go to a monochrome, I will definitely go for the M10M. 

 

Plusses of the MD 262 over the M10-D are:

-battery life (although battery life of the M10-D is never an issue for me)

-iso button better placed (in my opion)

-even simpeler lay out

-handier on/off button

 

Pluses of the M10-D over the 262:

- better high iso

- thumblever (didn't expect beforehand, but I really enjoy that one!)

- better viewfinder

- body form factor more in line with your m7

- and between brackets because I think it is both a plus AND a minus (WIFI option, foto app to setup camera)

Hope this helps!

Thanks a lot for the reply and the very good overview of your experiences with both.

The thinner body and the better .73 viewfinder would definitely feel more fluid to use along side the M7. Definitely what I was originally going for. Glad to hear it from someone who has had both. 

Cheers

 

[jakontil]

I agree with poli, most of the benefits of M10-D

The body form factor is better especially if u r familiar with m7, that’s the closest you can get, and higher iso, if not the best iso in a M with 24mpx 

i have both the m10 D and P though most of the times i prefer using the D for its very simplicities but it is there when needed, like wifi and evf, sold separately 

[newtoleica]

M10P are quite a bit cheaper than the M10D and easier to find. 

Do you really need to remove features? 

Why not just keep the screen turned off?

I also went through this dilemma as, as a film shooter the 10D concept appeals, but I fond a mint M10P at a good price so got that instead.

[Guest]

On 1/3/2021 at 3:22 PM, Murdog said:

Hi,

Just a little background first... I am an amateur street photographer and solely shoot street. I currently own a Leica M7, which has been my main camera for 3 years and this will be first move to digital.

I really love how engaged I am in the moment while shooting film, so I wanted to hang onto that experience, which is why I have chosen the screenless option. Although I love the process of shooting film, I mainly shoot at night where I lack high ISO and sometimes I get lazy when it comes to developing. 

My current lenses are  a 28mm Elmarit and a Voigtlander 35 1.4. 28mm being my favourite length. 

I will be buying used and my heart was set on an M10-D but while looking online, for the same money I could buy an MD 262 plus a 50 summilux for the same price. A 50 being a lens I have been hoping to buy in the future as I feel the 35 is too close to the lens I shoot most, the 28.

So just looking for suggestions, or maybe someone who upgraded from a 240/D262 to an M10/D. Or even someone coming from film. (I will still keep my M7) 

Any help would be great, thanks.

Hello Murdog and welcome to the Forum.......I presently own a MD-10, ( plus a M7 like yourself ), and despite some quirks it is perhaps my favourite digital M so regarding the choices of camera I would definitely go with the M10-D over the MD 262, and here's a couple of reasons why......The better VF, the slimmer nicely balanced body, and the sensitivity and DR of the sensor is improved over the 240/262 in my opinion, ( I used to own a M240 before trading up to the M10's ), PLUS although I first thought that the faux winding lever was a really stupid "throwback" idea I'm now completely won over with it to the extent that I wish all other future M's would offer the same thing. I never liked the rear on/off/WiFi switch from day one, I wish that it was in the "normal" M position around the shutter release, but I've gotten used to it I guess now. The reliance on Foto's to make changes to the camera setup is also an annoyance for me, but having settled on the best settings for your shooting preferences you can just leave all that alone. I've not changed my M10-D's settings for more than 8 months or so. The fact that you can use the Visoflex 020 with the M10-D may also be a plus for you. I have one, I don't like it on the M's but others do find it a very handy accessory.

Lenses? Frankly I think you've got two that are easily way good enough to start with, especially so the 28mm Elmarit which to my mind is one of Leica's best M lenses, also you may find that after using the M10-D for a while that perhaps you do not need to have a fast Summilux 50mm. I personally have found that since going into the M10 range of cameras I have been able to use smaller, marginally slower, lenses without any problem and to my mind the M balances so much better in the hand with the smaller lenses, ( like your present 28mm Elmarit ), larger faster lenses tend to block the VF more too which can be annoying.....they are also quite a lot more expensive! I'd recommend you looking at a 50mm Summarit when you are considering a 50mm, the Summaries are great little lenses and balance beautifully on the cameras.

Good luck anyway!

[astrostl]

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I can appreciate both the "why not turn off the screen?" and the "because it's different" takes. I felt the same way about AF on other systems. I could just not use it, set to manual mode, etc. But the existence of it honestly annoyed me, according to how I wanted to shoot.

I do see a "middle way" on this with cases, though - pretty easy to block the screen in various ways, with various levels of difficulty in undoing it.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Steven said:

Has anyone actually blocked, or taped, or covered the screen of their M10? would love to see a photo of that ! Cases and half cases don't count. 

funny enough a few years back I was teaching a documentary course at Maine Media Workshops in the US and at the beginning of the photography part of the workshop, ( it was a two part Film/Video and Photography Documentary workshop ), I made the participating "students" fix black paper camera tape over their camera's LCD screens to encourage them to better connect with their subjects and not continuously "chimp" after every shot during their sessions. For most of them it was unnerving at first, a couple quickly removed the tape unable to deal with the lack of instant review, but after a few days others found the experience valuable. Personally I believe it helps to keep one in the moment not to have the distraction of a screen, but we all work in different ways so no rules can be laid down...............But it's worth trying, tape your screen for a few days and see how it works for you.

* Note: if you do try it only use Black Paper Camera tape, anything else could leave sticky deposits on the LCD. Also if you've a screen protector any tape could lift that off when the tape's removed.............OR, save on tape and just go and buy a M10-D !

Edited January 18, 2021 by petermullett

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Steven said:

Ahahaha that's super interesting. I suppose you're a D user then, Peter? 

Yes Steven, had one for a year or so...........

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Steven said:

I suppose you love it and it’s your favorite digital camera ? 

Hello Steven.......I can't say I "love" any camera to be honest, they are after all just inanimate things........"Appreciate" perhaps when I find that they are comfortable tools to use; Leica M's, Eastwing hammers, Series Landrovers, Aga cookers, De Buyer poeles, Nikon Ftn's........I have a small list of things that are mostly simple, bared down objects that just work well for me and that's good enough.

[Murdog]

21 hours ago, petermullett said:

Hello Murdog and welcome to the Forum.......I presently own a MD-10, ( plus a M7 like yourself ), and despite some quirks it is perhaps my favourite digital M so regarding the choices of camera I would definitely go with the M10-D over the MD 262, and here's a couple of reasons why......The better VF, the slimmer nicely balanced body, and the sensitivity and DR of the sensor is improved over the 240/262 in my opinion, ( I used to own a M240 before trading up to the M10's ), PLUS although I first thought that the faux winding lever was a really stupid "throwback" idea I'm now completely won over with it to the extent that I wish all other future M's would offer the same thing. I never liked the rear on/off/WiFi switch from day one, I wish that it was in the "normal" M position around the shutter release, but I've gotten used to it I guess now. The reliance on Foto's to make changes to the camera setup is also an annoyance for me, but having settled on the best settings for your shooting preferences you can just leave all that alone. I've not changed my M10-D's settings for more than 8 months or so. The fact that you can use the Visoflex 020 with the M10-D may also be a plus for you. I have one, I don't like it on the M's but others do find it a very handy accessory.

Lenses? Frankly I think you've got two that are easily way good enough to start with, especially so the 28mm Elmarit which to my mind is one of Leica's best M lenses, also you may find that after using the M10-D for a while that perhaps you do not need to have a fast Summilux 50mm. I personally have found that since going into the M10 range of cameras I have been able to use smaller, marginally slower, lenses without any problem and to my mind the M balances so much better in the hand with the smaller lenses, ( like your present 28mm Elmarit ), larger faster lenses tend to block the VF more too which can be annoying.....they are also quite a lot more expensive! I'd recommend you looking at a 50mm Summarit when you are considering a 50mm, the Summaries are great little lenses and balance beautifully on the cameras.

Good luck anyway!

Thank you for the reply. I think the points you make are very valid and kind of take me back down to earth. I mostly only get the chance to shoot at night and being so used to my M7, a faster lens was my reasoning for the 50 or maybe a 28 summicron. But as you say, with the ISO capability of the m10-D, maybe my 28 Elmarit will be good enough. I love this lens and love the size on my M7. I think I'm sold on the m10-D 😁

[Murdog]

On 1/4/2021 at 2:38 PM, jakontil said:

I agree with poli, most of the benefits of M10-D

The body form factor is better especially if u r familiar with m7, that’s the closest you can get, and higher iso, if not the best iso in a M with 24mpx 

i have both the m10 D and P though most of the times i prefer using the D for its very simplicities but it is there when needed, like wifi and evf, sold separately 

Exactly how I feel, I don't think I would be changing many setting other than the original set up but it's there on the app if I ever need it. 

[poli]

1 hour ago, Murdog said:

Exactly how I feel, I don't think I would be changing many setting other than the original set up but it's there on the app if I ever need it. 

Yes,I also hardly use the app for changing settings and also hardly for downloading pictures. Maybe during a holiday while having a coffee break in a cafe to show a picture to my partner. In the field I never us it to chimp. It is just not made for that and I never think of it. The process of using the camera in taking pictures is very similar to the M-D 262. Basically the same. The real differences are the body design, viewfinder, etc as mentioned before

I recently did buy a EVF after almost two years of using the M10-D. I do not use it very often. Only when I work with a tripod. It makes the camera a bit more versatile. 

[oldwino]

Buy the M262 and the summilux 50. 
Then, in a year or so, sell the M262 and get the new MD-11R.