Lenses for Leica M2/M3

[Bobby]

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Hi All,

I'm thinking of buying a Leica M2 or M3. I'd like some recommendations for used lenses, as I don't have the budget for new ones. 

I would be interested about 50mm and 28mm focal length, and to know which vintage lenses have good image quality. 

Thank you, 

 

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[Ko.Fe.]

By now anything older than from 1980 is vintage. 

Are you looking for vintage lenses because they are not as expensive as used?

Or are you looking for them due to their rendering?

You could buy new Viogtlander 28 mm lens for less than Leica used lens. And you could get 7artisans or TTartisans new 50mm lens for same as Viogtlander 28 mm lens and less. They also have 28 mm lens. 

Do you know what M3 has no framelines for 35 mm and 28 mm lenses and M2 has no 28mm framelines ?

35mm and 28mm brightlines viewfinders are hundreds of dollars or DIY from not working old film camera.  

Edited December 19, 2020 by Ko.Fe.

[Bobby]

I'm looking for vintage lenses because they are cheaper than new lenses in most cases. I also like their look.

[farnz]

My suggestion would be a 50/2 Rigid Summicron because they pair together very well.  Make sure that the lens has no haze by shining a strong light through it and looking from the other end with the aperture wide open because haze can be very difficult and sometimes impossible to remove.

Pete.

[J.Nordvik]

A cheap alternative to an old Summicron is a silver Zeiss ZM Planar 2/50mm like this.

 

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[andybarton]

My first Leica M was an M2. I still have it on my shelf.

I bought it with a 1973 50 Summicron and for a while that was my only lens. Leica made thousands of them and most will still be in circulation. Given. The numbers and the lack of “cutting-edginess” Of the lens, there are plenty to be had and they are excellent value. As said before, check before you buy as they are 50 years old now.

I then bought a second hand 50 Summilux from the 1960s. The Leica glow was so evident that I traded it in for a second hand 35 Summicron-ASPH, which is an excellent lens if you watch out for flare in extreme circumstances.

My most used lens is a 24 Elmarit-M ASPH, which I use without a secondary viewfinder.

 

Bear in mind that Leica have made hundreds of variant lenses over the years, dating back to 1954 in M-mount, and none of them are “dogs”. If you want the best bargains, don’t go for exotica and shop in the 1970s. If ,you shop carefully, you will have a lens that will last you a lifetime.

 

Or buy new, from the various Chinese manufacturers, but I bet that you sell those on as soon as funds allow and buy a 
Leica equivalent.

[wda]

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My first choice would be a 50mm Summicron, a truly lovely lens which performs amazingly well, even today. I still have mine which I bought new with my M3. If your budget is really tight, consider an Elmarit 50mm f/2.8. This lens matches its pricier sibling at working apertures and has the merit of collapsing for a compact package.

[J.Nordvik]

OT. When I was looking for pictures of M3 with Planar I also found these pictures taken with the lenses I had at the time (3/2012). Planar 2,0/50. Biogon 2,8/28 and Summaron 2,8/35

I have two pictures of the Planar, taken with Biogon and with Summaron. Which is which? (all pictures are cropped)

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[J.Nordvik]

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[pgk]

Firstly, either buy an M2 or M3 with a warranty or factor in a CLA to the cost. Great cameras as these are, they are also old and many are sold which need to be CLA's although their sellers say that they 'appear' to be working ok. If you are constrained on lens budget then a 50 Elmar, whilst perhaps not the finest of Leica's offerings optically, still has a large following - there is one currently on sale from a reputable UK dealer for under £300. 28mm Elmarit lenses can also suffer from poorer reputations than later lenses but are not bad in reality. Just ensure that you get one with no problems as they can be difficult to source spares for. They seem to have gone up in price but you can still be able buy one with a warranty for under £800 from a reputable dealer and with a warranty. Alternatively a 28mm Rokkor for the CL can be bought cheaply still and less than £400 should get a reasonable one. You may need a viewfinder too though. Stopped down well any of these lenses will give good results.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

For lenses this old buy from a dealer, they will be more honest about condition. I really like the 1953 50 Collapsible Summicron I got from KEH ($600), was listed as a "user" but have found nothing wrong with it. A DR Summicron (rigid) is also nice, I have owned 2 that I used when I had M2s and they were excellent. The DR doesn't play with digital M's well. I have also been looking at 28s, the preaspheric Elmarit seems like a decent price, for a Leica lens, not sure if the original works on digital M's but would certainly work on an M2/3. The Minolta seems like a good deal but most have "white dot syndrome" so factor in a CLA if you go that direction. You do need a finder for a 28, not hard to work with one on your camera. 

 

[Rob L]

Try Igors - http://www.igorcamera.com/

Good selection of used Leica lenses and good to deal with.

Sorry, didn't notice that you were in London!

Edited December 20, 2020 by Rob L

[pippy]

I'd second both wda and pgk's suggestion of the collapsible 50mm f2.8 if you are on a fairly tight budget and don't really need f2. The original-style rigid Summicron is a very lovely lens but prices for good ones are rising quite markedly and, from my own experience in looking for one, getting an example with clean optics is not as easy as finding a clean Elmar.

As far as 28mm lenses go I can't really add anything to what has already been said regarding Leitz lenses but can also second Ko.Fe.'s recommendation of the Voigtlander 28mm f2 Ultron if you don't mind going off-brand. I've had one for many years and it is a truly great performing lens for not much outlay (in Leica terms).

Just as an FWIW on the body; as has been said the M3 has no frame lines for anything wide-angle at all and the M2 has framelines for a 35mm but not a 28mm. In practice the 'full window frame' as seen through the viewfinder of the M3 covers approximately the angle-of-view of a 35mm and with the M2 the v/f a-o-v is approximately that of a 28mm. Might be worth bearing in mind.

Good luck!

Philip.

Edited December 20, 2020 by pippy

[adan]

On 12/18/2020 at 5:42 PM, Bobby said:

Hi All,

I'm thinking of buying a Leica M2 or M3. I'd like some recommendations for used lenses, as I don't have the budget for new ones. 

I would be interested about 50mm and 28mm focal length, and to know which vintage lenses have good image quality. 

Thank you,

1) It is the case that with Leica's digital revival with backwards compatability to even the earliest M lenses, and the escalating prices of their current lenses, even "vintage" Leitz/Leica M lenses are not as "budget" as they once were. They are being bid up - sometimes modestly, sometimes enormously. I don't know where you draw the line at "budget" - but some are pushing US$2000 now.

2) My own recommendations for relatively inexpensive "vintage" Leica-brand M-mount lenses:

50mm Summicron f/2.0 collapsible or 50mm Elmar f/2.8 (original version) collapsible. These are relatively cheap because, while good, they were not quite as sharp as the later or faster 50mm Summicron non-collapsible (a.k.a "rigid"). And because their collapsible nature means they are perceived as slightly risky to use on the digital Ms (less space between the lens and the digital blade-type shutters).

In addition, they have a close-focus limit of 0.9m/3 feet - which is the case for many pre-1965 50mm M lenses. So they are not being bid up as quickly as rigid 50s.

It is noteworthy that the 50 Elmar f/2.8 was intended and designed precisely as the "budget option" or "starter lens" for people buying M3s and M2s in the 1960s. They kicked off quite a few notable careers for "starving photographers." A retro update version designated "Elmar-M" was also sold between about 1994 and 2007, then replaced by the 50mm Summarit f/2.5.

(There is also the f/3.5 Elmar - optics dating back to the 1930s, but competent, if slow)

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For 28mm, it is the case that price and image quality track together. The generally least-expensive Leica-made 28 is the Elmarit version 2 (1972-1979) - and it is also a bit weak optically, at least at f/2.8-4.0. Rather fuzzy away from the center of the picture. But sharp in a low-contrast kind of way in the center at f/2.8, and to the corners at smaller apertures.

Frankly, I use one of these myself, since I understand its behavior. And like its handling, color rendition, and lower global contrast. I am just careful to keep the important stuff near the center of the picture - or stop down to f/8. And a great many "museum-worthy" documentary pictures were made with one, by the likes of Mary Ellen Mark, Susan Meiselas, and so on.

The version 3 (1980-1990) is better but bulkier and usually a bit more expensive. There is also the original f/5.6 Summaron - but again they are not quite the bargains they once were.

3) as to the viewfinders of the M3/M2.

The 0.72x M2 viewfinder is identical to today'sM  viewfinders in field of view. All it lacks are the (very approximate) framelines. Trivially easy (and no less accurate) to just use "the whole viewfinder" of an M2 for 28mm framing. Although on the whole I prefer an accessory finder for a 28mm on any or all 0.72x Leicas.

The M3 finder does lack framelines for 35mm - but you did not ask about 35mm lenses, so I figure that is irrelevant to the discussion. if you do get an M3, and later decide to add a 35mm lens, there exist vintage versions of 35 Summarons/Summicrons/Summiluxes complete with reducing-goggles to squeeze a 35mm view into the exisiting 50mm framelines. And there is also the option of hundreds of hot-shoe 35mm finders on the market, made by Leica, Canon, Nikon, Zorki, FED, Voigtlander, and others over the years, and often as cheap as $30. 

[earleygallery]

It would help to say what your budget is as the suggestions above vary quite a lot in price range.

For a 50 I would go with the Elmar 2.8 or 3.5 versions (the 3.5 is also more widely available in thread mount which you can fit to an M with a simple adaptor).

If you buy an M2 you have framelines for 35/50 and 90mm lenses. A 35mm is a great partner on an M2 - I use the Voigtlander Skopar which is a superb little lens. You can use a 28mm on an M2 if you use the whole viewfinder to frame the images. The M3 is only suitable for 50/90/135mm and you'd need separate finders for wider lenses.

Voigtlander also make a great 28mm (and 50mm) Skopar. I think they are about the best budget options and performance wise you won't be lacking anything.

Russian lenses are cheap but don't always work correctly on Leica's without recalibration.