Shooting both film and digital

[Jeff S]

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24 minutes ago, bilbrown said:

 

Bruce told me once that when he was using the S that he could get images that he couldn't get with the limitations of the M and film. Now he is using and M10 as well as the S for his portrait and commercial work. Recently he did one of the covers for my friend Olivier Zahm's Purple Fashion magazine. Looks like he used the S, as when he shot for GUCCI.

 

 

 

Yes, and a lot of those people have let that camera go. Most people I know went to the Fuji GFX loved it for the fact they could adapt their old MF lenses, but weren't completely happy with the sensor – even at the 100MP of the flagship GFX. They will get a Hasselblad or a Leica, or if they are really in the dough a Phase One. I recently dropped my Pentax 645Z, but kept my Leica S typ 007. I don't know if I ever will get the S3, but even though my M10R has the equivalent MP or more, and if I really wanted or needed more I could go to scanning slide film at 80MP or higher or rent/borrow and SL2 it just doesn't have the same rendering as that 16bit sensor of the S typ 007 and the 14bit of the M10R. I am looking for depth more than anything.

 

I will agree with you about the Monochrom cameras. I have owned the CCD M9 Mono and the M typ 246, I loved them but no they didn't have the same depth as film. There is something about the WET process of film that the DRY process of instant digital just can't replicate. Can't quite put my finger on it... but even in color.... Araki once said, "Red is biological, its wet like menstrul blood (ha, Araki...). Color shouldn't be dry like digital." Maybe he's right.

 

The S007 (and S3) captures 14 bit data, stored in a 16 bit container.  David Farkas has written about this, following extensive conversation with Leica.  See posts #5 and #10 in the following thread...

Jeff

Edited December 8, 2020 by Jeff S

[benqui]

I also use both systems, during a journey with my family, a digital camera is a must. 

But for the rest and most of my portraits, I use a M3, M-A or F6. Ok, not every photo is perfect, but I am not a pro, so I can survive some failed analog photos. But nothing beats the beauty of b/w film or the beautiful colors of the Portra 400.

[earleygallery]

I use both, or rather I have used film since I was a kid, and started to use digital alongside it.

Including phone pics the majority of the photos I take are now digital but I prefer using film, just as I still prefer listening to an LP on my hifi than something on Spotify.

They're both great though.

[oldwino]

When Harry Gruyaert's film Leicas were stolen, he replaced them with a Canon DSLR and a zoom lens. Still makes "Harry Gruyaert" photos. Go figure.

[Herr Barnack]

On 12/6/2020 at 2:16 PM, gabrielaszalos said:

For those of you out there who own both film and digital Leicas - when do you choose digital over film?

 

When I want  -

1:  Higher printed image quality at larger print sizes;

2:  Ease of making prints;                                                                                                               

3:  To avoid loading film developing reels and using chemicals to develop film;

4:  More precise control when processing images;

5:  More dynamic range (in color) vs.  E-6 film;

6:  Similar/equivalent dynamic range (M10 Monochrom) compared to  B&W film;

7:  Higher ISO capability with a higher level of image quality;

8:  To not use a flash for low light shooting (usually);

9:  To not use a tripod for low light shooting (usually);

10:  No missed images due to changing film every 36 exposures;

11:  To avoid having to hand carry cumbersome lead lined film bags full of film when traveling by passenger jet;

12:  To travel light - three 128 gb SDXC Memory Cards (used in an M10 Monochrom) stores as many images as 125 rolls of film;

13:  Resolution/sharpness equal to or better than large format sheet film (M-P 240 and newer full frame digital M cameras);

Even with all the above, I still get a lot of satisfaction and enjoyment from shooting with my M4-P and Tri-X film for specific situations.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[bilbrown]

6 hours ago, Jeff S said:

The S007 (and S3) captures 14 bit data, stored in a 16 bit container.  David Farkas has written about this, following extensive conversation with Leica.  See posts #5 and #10 in the following thread...

Jeff

and the M10R would then be the same, as it seems to have the same tech as the S3

[Jeff S]

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Derived from same sensor architecture, at least.  
 

Jeff

[bilbrown]

9 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Derived from same sensor architecture, at least.  
 

Jeff

It seems very comparable I have both 

[leicameter]

To change between film and digital I build a digital back for film M 😉

 

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[Steve Ricoh]

This is a really good question. Is it an internal battle between the left and right hemispheres of the brain.
I like very much the immediacy of digital, but I like the tactile feel of analogue cameras (If you promise not to snitch on me to my wife I’ll tell you that I have more film cameras than digital; there I’ve said it). 
At the centre of the debate within me, I’m moving more towards experimental analogue such as cross processing slide film. There are other differences between the two mediums, and sometimes it’s the grain and or rendition that attracts me to film.

Above all, just have fun.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Steve Ricoh

[Steve Ricoh]

Another point, how long does it take to ‘fire off’ 36 exposures of 135. In my case an eternity. With digital there’s no compulsion to finish anything, just pop the SD and be done.

[monther]

I agonised over this question once but decided that I didn’t want to have a picture I wanted to print in my darkroom end up as a digital file that I couldn’t print in this way.

Why make such a beautiful and simple thing so complicated? 

So I put 400 speed bw film in my camera and I muddle through and I find it joyous and frequently I print and tone these pictures and sometimes I even frame them and it seems to make sense to me kind of.

That works for me. Ca marche pour moi. 

[monther]

Digital is just to make film online. Or it’s for things where it’s more practical , kids sports and other telephoto things where darkroom prints seems less critical. 

[monther]

It’s not ‘a look’,  just a process, a craft. For sure it’s not the only way. Maybe you print and you /print/, good for you but I always would feel such deep regret at a beautiful image without a negative. 

[gabrielaszalos]

Lots of beautiful answers.

@monther totally get where you're coming from. I personally don't print in a darkroom, but I share the sentiment with a lot of people's answers. For me, my favourite part about film is actually my Leica MP which is purely mechanical. I love the sound of it, the way it handles, the fact that it doesn't need batteries to work. I also love seeing the grain on the negative when I scan the film with my digital camera. It gives depth, art in a way. Nothing compares.

I bought a digital camera and have been using it for a week now. It's a Leica M10-D. The experience is very similar but it's not the same. It's not mechanical, and it can be felt. Even the silent shutter (inherited from the M10-P) kind of sounds "digital". But I kind of like that because it is *is* a digital camera. I also enjoy the fact that the images have so much latitude for editing. However, it does not compare.

[adan]

I've held back answering this, since I don't shoot film in 35mm format anymore. (see Herr Barnack's list as to why).

But I do shoot film in 6x6 format. Since there are no 6x6 sensors commonly available yet, but a lot of legacy 6x6 film cameras/lenses.

(although: https://petapixel.com/2018/04/17/largesense-unveils-worlds-first-single-shot-8x10-digital-camera )

And also that with 6x6, many of the items on Herr Barnack's list don't apply in the same way. or don't apply to me. I love loading film on a reel in the dark! It is a "zen" moment.

So it's a creative/stylistic choice based more on the format than the material behind the lens. Film to get the authentic square Arbus/Penn/Bailey/Maier aesthetic, with authentic black borders (sometimes with authentic Hassy notches v      v  ). Usually for a consistent look for a specific essay.

See my magazine issue 2/2017, which contains work showing both my digital and film approaches: http://www.coloradoseen.com/2017/

As to output, that is all digital anyway - scans and prints. I had to disassemble my print darkroom last year when a new furnace was being installed - and I doubt I'll ever reassemble it.

[Mr.Prime]

For 35mm film I think the point is that we love it partly in spite of and because of some of the items on Herr Barnack's list. I don't want my camera & computer to do it all for me, my pleasure also comes from the doing. Perhaps it's one of those Zen things.

I'm tempted by the 6x6 myself, just feels like that would be the final step in my madness. Just received an old Minolta X-500 (had one when young and just wanted it back in my hands) and so it was with some excitement and pleasure that I opened the bubble wrap, taking off the lens cap and twisting that manual focus ring etc. It's lighter than any of my digital cameras, the batteries won't die on me, I have no menus to scroll through, no LCD screen staring me in the face. Now you get me thinking about a 6x6 again, my wallet is not thanking you 🙂

[Steve Ricoh]

I’ve thought about this some more. The most important consideration is making photographs that appeal, and it splits us broadly into two groups: those who like cameras but struggle making anything but boring images, apart from the odd accidental gem. The other group can make ‘art’ with any camera, analogue, digital, 35mm, 120, large format...

I openly admit that I’m in the first group. 

[Mr.Prime]

Steve, don't worry, if you live long enough you'll have sufficient of those accidental gems that you can look back and view them as the result of skill, artistry and perseverance. I think that goes for most things in life by the way.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Mr.Prime

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[a.noctilux]

Another opinion ...

I forgot to mention that in pano use, Hasselblad Xpan System can not (yet ) be "replaced" in digital 🙃.

So when I plan to use pano format, the choice of Xpan is main system, then digital Leica M took place of "modern polaroïds" or "metering device".