Pecole Posted November 10, 2020 Share #1 Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) When reviewing the archives of my collection, I have been chocked by a few things : 1. Both Lager and Laney say that the first Leica MD appreared in 1964 at serial 1102501. I had two MD with all type's characteristics numbered 979697 and 979737. Prototypes? the only external difference I noted with the "normal" ones was the general shape and size of the image counter disc (especially the edge of same, see the photo). 2. All my five so-called "MD Post" were serialled 1067xxx (-888, -920, -928, -976 and -987), consistent with Laney's listing "Postk." dated 1963. BUT! No one of these has the external image counter typical of the MD. At the contrary, all external characteristics are those of a "M3-without-viewfider/telemeter-slow speeds lever", but with the internal image counter typical of the type. So, I finally decided that my five "MD Post" are in fact "M3 Post", and I changed my lists and captions accordingly. Further, it gives a reason why I never succeeded in getting an M3 Post for my collection. The reason why what I see as a confusion occured? I suspect economical explanation : the price of a product branded "M3" was too high to propose to a post office, and a cheaper MD was the solution. Remarks, counter-aruments? I'd be too happy to receive same. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The image below does not come from my archives : it is presented as a "M3 Post". Look for the differences with "my" supposed MD Post! Edited November 10, 2020 by Pecole Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The image below does not come from my archives : it is presented as a "M3 Post". Look for the differences with "my" supposed MD Post! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314988-did-leica-md-post-ever-exist/?do=findComment&comment=4077545'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 10, 2020 Posted November 10, 2020 Hi Pecole, Take a look here Did "Leica MD Post" ever exist?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted November 10, 2020 Share #2 Posted November 10, 2020 I think that the two MDs you quote (979.xxx) should be better identified as "M1 with no VF"... 😉 .. iirc some author syas that some M1 were made like this... M1 was normally listed in that period, and maybe at factory they tested some no-VF camera... maybe when dealing with possible customers in the field of postkameras or scientific usage, and this did lead , in due time, to the "Postkameras" in the range you quote (made to specific order).. at the end, assessed that there was a market for a standard Leica with no VF at all, they introduced the MD... with the simplified external counter that was already made for M2 and M1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted November 10, 2020 Share #3 Posted November 10, 2020 This one is stamped "POST" like the MDa Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314988-did-leica-md-post-ever-exist/?do=findComment&comment=4077921'>More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted November 11, 2020 Share #4 Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) Here are my Post cameras: 928983---Marked 24 x 27 mm . Shutter fixed at flash, only flash sync socket on back, no film minder on rear door. Front postal meter locating pins. Lens is 35 Summaron 3.5, is variable, fixed focus and marked "Post II-20" in red. 1115000---Marked 24 x 27 mm. A nice serial, shutter fixed at flash, only flash sync on back, has film minder. But the original postal meter location pins have been removed. Has 28 5.6 Summaron which is likely not a post related lens. 1141994---Marked 24 x 27 mm. Shutter fixed at flash, only flash sync on back, has film minder. Lens is Summaron 35 2.8 variable aperature fixed focus and Marked Post II-100. Bottom plate has sticker "POST 1967" 1469705--Black MD-2 not marked with frame size but 24 x 36 mm frame crate in camera, shutter fixed at flash, modern film finder on rear, post meter location pins on front. Has both M and X sync outputs.Lens is fixed Summicron 35 2.0 locked at 5.6 aperature and fixed focus 2826819 Leitz Canada. Has rapid film load and motor drive connection as expected for an MD-2 based variation. All the cameras have the internal M3 style frame counter.All cameras can only be released using a shutter release cable, the button alone will not work. There have been journal articles showing how these cameras are mounted to a fixture that places the postal meter at a specific distance. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited November 11, 2020 by alan mcfall corrections 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314988-did-leica-md-post-ever-exist/?do=findComment&comment=4078041'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 11, 2020 Share #5 Posted November 11, 2020 Wow... I had seen a Post with Summaron 28 5,6, but never one with a Summicron.. but it's locic.. at those times, Summarons weren't been made for years... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecole Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share #6 Posted November 11, 2020 Thanks to all, and especially to Luigi : I had never heard about the possibility of my two "low serials" MD's being in fact experimental M1's. And contribution of Braconi is also most interesting. But after all, my question remains : were all Leicas presented as MD Post rather based on M3? For Alan, who did not see my former publication (years ago..), I give hereunder photos of the Swiss Alos system, used by most Post Offices. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314988-did-leica-md-post-ever-exist/?do=findComment&comment=4078121'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 11, 2020 Share #7 Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, Pecole said: Thanks to all, and especially to Luigi : I had never heard about the possibility of my two "low serials" MD's being in fact experimental M1's. And contribution of Braconi is also most interesting. But after all, my question remains : were all Leicas presented as MD Post rather based on M3? Subtle question... but imho, apart the front lens assembly which of course is higly "customized", the distinguishing feature is the frame counter... looks that in the so called "MD Post" ("official" ones, your M1 based is a proto, maybe even not Post-related) , it's of the internal-autoresetting type (*) : a feature of M3 - not of M1 and M2 - : so they can be defined as M3 based. (MDa Post are on the contrary M4-based - resetting counter but angled rewind lever) . (*) Appreciable feature for workers who probably had to change frequently the film (even if in the "24x27" it goes to 60, for what I read here : http://www.wetzlar-historica-italia.it/leicapost.html , and also well clear in JC items) And... I note that two smart collectors like JC and Alan both have some item with "nice numbers"... 😎... is end .000 nicer than .999 ? 😉 (i'd like to have a "bible beasty" .666 😁) Edited November 11, 2020 by luigi bertolotti 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted November 11, 2020 Share #8 Posted November 11, 2020 3 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said: Wow... I had seen a Post with Summaron 28 5,6, but never one with a Summicron.. but it's locic.. at those times, Summarons weren't been made for years... I seem to remember that I bought a (late?) trashed one (many parts missing) with a Summicron some time ago, and used the Summicron for another repair - its a bit vague now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicapasion Posted November 12, 2020 Share #9 Posted November 12, 2020 My Post 1972, very similar to JCBraconi. Un saludo. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314988-did-leica-md-post-ever-exist/?do=findComment&comment=4079104'>More sharing options...
Pecole Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) On 11/12/2020 at 7:53 PM, Leicapasion said: My Post 1972, very similar to JCBraconi. Un saludo. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And it is an MDa "Post", companhero vizinho. I had a similar too, photo attached., serial quite close to yours (1293983). Edited November 14, 2020 by Pecole 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted November 14, 2020 Share #11 Posted November 14, 2020 I have two other one is a 24x36 Post with a Summaron 2.8/35 and one that is based on the M2 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314988-did-leica-md-post-ever-exist/?do=findComment&comment=4080124'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 14, 2020 Share #12 Posted November 14, 2020 Hello JC 😎; sorry... but what makes 1160439 different from a standard MD ? I miss some detail... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecole Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share #13 Posted November 14, 2020 I also had a M3 "Post" 24x36. And I agree with Luigi : what did your MD have special? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314988-did-leica-md-post-ever-exist/?do=findComment&comment=4080197'>More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted November 15, 2020 Share #14 Posted November 15, 2020 22 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said: Hello JC 😎; sorry... but what makes 1160439 different from a standard MD ? I miss some detail... It is the only one, at least, I have that it is engraved MD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecole Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share #15 Posted November 15, 2020 1 hour ago, jc_braconi said: It is the only one, at least, I have that it is engraved MD This one too is engraved MD, and it is about 24000 "younger" than yours. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314988-did-leica-md-post-ever-exist/?do=findComment&comment=4080812'>More sharing options...
Leicapasion Posted November 15, 2020 Share #16 Posted November 15, 2020 My Leica MD with earlier ns. 1964 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314988-did-leica-md-post-ever-exist/?do=findComment&comment=4080974'>More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted November 17, 2020 Share #17 Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) Here are a couple of MD's from the 1160 201-1160820 batch to compare with JC's 1160439. They are consecutive serial numbers 703 and 704. I always liked MD's and MDa's. I have 15 including posts. My anaylis of the MD shows 3216 built with 227 posts of 24 x 36 and only 99 of the 27 x 36 format. With post cameras beginning before the MD, as mentioned in an above post. I believe there were 207 post cameras delivered before the first MD at 1102501. This may support that early MD post camera followed from the M1. Allways welcoming any new information.There were more than 1800 Mda's built before the first Mda Post at 1164866. My opinion, as assigned lots are always not consecutively serialized. May depend on when the Post Office placed their orders. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! d1, Edited November 17, 2020 by alan mcfall 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! d1, ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314988-did-leica-md-post-ever-exist/?do=findComment&comment=4081766'>More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted November 17, 2020 Share #18 Posted November 17, 2020 On 11/15/2020 at 6:24 PM, Pecole said: This one too is engraved MD, and it is about 24000 "younger" than yours. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! So you mean "older" than mine ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecole Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share #19 Posted November 17, 2020 3 hours ago, jc_braconi said: So you mean "older" than mine ? It depends from which side you calculate. At my age, you know, "younger" comes more easily (attends un peu - ou beaucoup -, tu verras comme ça devient naturel!). 3 hours ago, jc_braconi said: So you mean "older" than mine ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph. Posted November 18, 2020 Share #20 Posted November 18, 2020 The market for register cameras disappeared when exchanges stopped using counters, relays and "strowger" selectors and went electronic, so phone companies got rid of their cameras. I bought an Alpa 11a plus ALOS flash equipment some time after BT scrapped it. The Pignons manager told me that the Swiss company TN (Telefonbau und Normalzeit) bought his equipment out of national solidarity.. I presume than Leitz also had a cosy relationship with a German maker of telephone exchanges . In the case of ALOS they went on modifying cameras for such use, still fitting them with Asahi 35/3,5 . I have a Canon F1new with exactly the same lens and flash-funnel coupling as my Alpa. p. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now