24meg verses 40meg aesthetic

[Guest Nowhereman]

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^ Often anything subsequently considered "real art" is a tiny segment of what is produced: especially true of the visual arts since, say, the Impressionists.
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Frog Leaping photobook

[Jeff S]

3 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

^ Often anything subsequently considered "real art" is a tiny segment of what is produced: especially true of the visual arts since, say, the Impressionists.
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Frog Leaping photobook

Still mostly family and friend sharing of snaps, or vanity exercises. We’ll see how the rest evolves, content and quality-wise.

Jeff

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Probably more like 99+ % in the age of phone cameras. And still a small minority here.  I love prints... and paintings and drawings... and real books (not e-readers).  A fine print of a worthy picture has always been my objective, film and digital.  I have also collected vintage prints (and first edition photo books) over many years, and have spent countless hours in museums, galleries, exhibitions, and meeting privately with dealers, curators and others to see and discuss the work. Screen viewing, and social media, have their place, but photography for me is all about the print.  So, yes, I’m increasingly becoming a dinosaur.  Shame, though, as I think others are missing out, including those who not only don’t print, or don’t outsource, but those who haven’t taken the time to see some marvelous work up close and personal. Like looking at original paintings on a screen; a poor substitute.  
 

Thanks for the end note.

Jeff

Couldn't agree more Jeff.

All of my photography work from the very beginning has been done with the print process in mind, whether that would be a printed image in a magazine spread, an advertisement displayed in one way or another, or a film poster. Of course they've also found their ways to the web too, but when working professionally or for myself  I've  always tried to consider how a final image would look, tweaked, reframed, cropped and printed. That was true in the darkroom years and it's just as true now in the inkjet years now arguably the print process is much easier and more conveniently achieved too now a darkroom isn't necessary.

I love the process of printing and consider the equipment involved as being as important and hand in glove with whatever camera system one chooses to make the image in the first place. A print brings everything to a tangible reality and the making of it does requires as much skill as is used to capture a good image in the first place. To just make one's images to view on a screen, to store and eventually evaporate on fragile drives or whatever is to my mind stopping the process of photography halfway, there's no closing the loop in that.  

[Jeff S]

6 minutes ago, petermullett said:

Couldn't agree more Jeff.

All of my photography work from the very beginning has been done with the print process in mind, whether that would be a printed image in a magazine spread, an advertisement displayed in one way or another, or a film poster. Of course they've also found their ways to the web too, but when working professionally or for myself  I've  always tried to consider how a final image would look, tweaked, reframed, cropped and printed. That was true in the darkroom years and it's just as true now in the inkjet years now arguably the print process is much easier and more conveniently achieved too now a darkroom isn't necessary.

I love the process of printing and consider the equipment involved as being as important and hand in glove with whatever camera system one chooses to make the image in the first place. A print brings everything to a tangible reality and the making of it does requires as much skill as is used to capture a good image in the first place. To just make one's images to view on a screen, to store and eventually evaporate on fragile drives or whatever is to my mind stopping the process of photography halfway, there's no closing the loop in that.  

Two dinosaurs; not yet a herd.

Jeff

[Guest]

Like me you probably wouldn't join a "herd" anyway.......

[Jeff S]

Group of dinosaurs = herd. We’re still at the couple stage.  😳 

Jeff

[jaapv]

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1 minute ago, Jeff S said:

Group of dinosaurs = herd. We’re still at the couple stage.  😳 

Jeff

Three

[Jeff S]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Three

I’ve heard mixed results from threesomes.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

5 minutes ago, Steven said:

Do you guys print at home, or outsource ? May I ask what do you do with the prints? Would love to print more. I just haven’t found a convincing reason to start yet, except for a few kids portrait that my wife put in the toilet (which has now become my favorite place in the house, where I direct every new guest as soon as they step in). 

At home.  Just glance over at the Digital Post Processing section of the forum and you’ll find loads of discussions on many related matters.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

28 minutes ago, Steven said:

Thanks Jeff. And what do you do with your prints? 

Same as I did with silver prints... custom mat and frame (using my gear and supplies) only the most worthy, for me or for others, and store others in portfolio drawers, presentation binders, etc.  Loose work prints stay on view in work room to determine if any deserve further consideration. I rotate framed wall displays to keep things fresh, including my vintage collectible prints,  although I’ve sold most of those.

Jeff

[Guest]

The other downside to printing your own work, matting it and then possibly framing the results, is that you all too quickly run out of wall space.......So apart from having to buy a decent monitor to edit the work you'll need a Photo' quality good printer for the output that's at least A2 size like Epson's P800/900 series or larger, inks, paper and framing supplies and then a home upgrade with a greater available wall area comes into the equation.

[Jeff S]

I have lots of wall space, but don’t crowd displays.  As noted, rotating displays can be good exercise to merge themes, change locations and not tire of same presentation.  I have and enjoy a number of cameras and lenses, but I don’t take them out all together.

Jeff

[Guest]

Good for you Jeff.........I'm still working on deciding what to "rotate"........even today as I get set for another printing session here.............Two quick iPhone snaps just now as I get ready.

 

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[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, Steven said:

We're getting off topic now, but the truth is that I don't think me courageous enough to print my work. 

Posting my stuff online says that enjoy what I do and like to share it with the people who'd care to see it. 

But printing in in large with the intent of hanging it to a wall, or even further, turning it into a book, feels a little prententious. The statement is not the same anymore, it becomes: my work is good enough to be exposed and deserved for everyone to see it. 

Of course, I am just talking about how I feel about myself. Not saying that those who print are prententious , of course. I dream of printing. Like I said, I just havent found and excuse to do so yet. 

Anyway, back to megapixel count... 

I look at it differently.  Many posting online are seemingly saying “look at me” to a bunch of strangers.  I make prints for me and for a limited audience.  Don’t really care about recognition.  Whatever floats one’s boat... room for all. 
 

But, more on topic, why spend all this money on gear, if aesthetics are paramount, then waste it on a screen where so much is lost and can further be misrepresented through unmatched or crappy screens/monitors?  At least if someone dislikes my pictures/prints, they see it as intended (vision impairment aside).
 

Jeff

 

[Jeff S]

6 minutes ago, Steven said:

Now I need to find a place, or a website, that lets me print ONE book. Any tips anyone ? 

You might move that discussion to the DPP section, where there are already threads to be perused.  But book quality still isn’t print quality, with some exceptions.

Jeff

[Guest Nowhereman]

@Steven - Instead of thinking about a coffeetable book, I suggest thinking with what you would like to say with a book. Of course, "say" is a big word, once you start thinking about "meaning in the visual arts". It doesn't have to mean telling a story; it doesn't have to be "about" something: it can be a sequence based on visual relationships or on poetic progressions — Ralph Gibson early books, for example, are a good example of both. 

I have a long thread, Photobooks and its Discontents, which is almost a journal on how I came to conceive, design, print and sell my photobook: I would not point you to the beginning of the thread, unless you're fascinated on how a book comes about or unless you're a glutton for self-punishment. A good place to start might be the middle of the thread.

Another solution is to print a "zine" on an inkjet printer: you could print, say, 10, 20 or 50 copies that you know you can sell and recover your costs, as well enjoying the creative experience, for which a zine fruitful.
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Frog Leaping photobook

[Guest Nowhereman]

^ Actually, it's exactly this type of coffee-table book, in the sense that you define it, that I printed single copies of three volumes on an inkjet printer. I then went on to have three book dummies, that were never published, printed on the HP Indigo digital printer. Were I starting printing for myself today, I would probably do a couple of zines.
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Frog Leaping photobook

[Raymondl]

@Steven @Tom1234

I found this video quite insightful esp at 09:00 mark regarding high resolution. Thought I would share it here  

 

[Dennis]

In the end, what people like most? 24 or 40meg aesthetics? How is the poll?

I didn't read all posts, but it's incredible to see how technology has changed and changed our perception of photography itself. AI for editing? OMG, please not. I didn't know that something as Gigapixel AI was existing; I thought it was only for movies and not for all mortals. 🤣
I feel nowadays a lot the concept of the paradox of choice. Interesting resume below, go to the link for more.

 

Barry Schwartz believes that having a lot of options isn’t always a good thing. A professor of social theory and social action at Swarthmore College, he argues that instead of producing feelings of abundance, too much choice overwhelms our already-exhausted brains. An abundance of choice, writes Schwartz in his book The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less — How the Culture of Abundance Robs Us of Satisfaction (Harper Perennial, 2005), forces us to “invest time, energy, and no small amount of self-doubt, and dread” into each decision, leaving us feeling more constrained than liberated. “Clinging tenaciously to all the choices available to us,” writes Schwartz, “contributes to bad decisions, to anxiety, stress and dissatisfaction — even to clinical depression.”

Maximizers Vs. Satisficers

There are two types of decision makers, says Schwartz: maximizers and satisficers. The difference between the two is their goal when making a choice.

“If you seek and accept only the best, you are a maximizer,” writes Schwartz. “Maximizers need to be assured that every purchase or decision was the best that could be made.” Satisficers, on the other hand, will choose “something that is good enough and not worry about the possibility that there might be something better.” The key to experiencing more satisfaction and abundance, according to Schwartz, is to be a satisficer. “How can anyone truly know that any given option is absolutely the best possible?” ponders Schwartz. “As a decision strategy, maximizing creates a daunting task, which becomes all the more daunting as the number of options increases.”

The goal of maximizing, he asserts, “can make people miserable — especially in a world that insists on providing an overwhelming number of choices, both trivial and not so trivial. ”Being a satisficer doesn’t mean you have to sacrifice your standards, however. A satisficer maintains rigorous decision-making criteria, but she is aware that nothing can ever be perfect. “She searches until she finds an item that meets those standards, and at that point, she stops,” writes Schwartz. She is not resigned or settling, he emphasizes; she is “content with the merely excellent as opposed to the absolute best.”

 

Are you a Maximizer or a Satisficer? The paradox of choice, the camera specs comparison, digital world VS , etc. It takes us, step by step, away from the truth. Of course, since dark rooms first step, PP has always existed: to give life to the next stage of the process after the exposure, right? The personal interpretation was and still is essential. And it helps to reach the photographer's goal, his/her vision, and unique signature style. But this doesn't have to distract us from our original purpose: create stunning work in camera, just with an idea: film, or BSI CMOS whatever... I think there is not more exciting emotion that reaches a great photo in camera, despite the MP# ... w/o AI ... And of course with 24 or 40meg. Who cares?

But again, "In the end, what people like most? 24 or 40meg? How is the poll?? 😂
Good vibes 

🙏

Edited November 1, 2020 by Dennis

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Raymondl]

@Steven @Tom1234 I also found another video that was fairly interesting comparison of a 40MP (mono) to 150MP phase one.