odd Posted August 20, 2007 Share #1 Posted August 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi; I would like to do my own tests on developing times etc but lack a densiometer. I’ v got a Nikon coolscan and Vuescan and I wonder if there is someone that has figured out some way of using the equipment as “densiometer”? I know it can’ t be a reel densiometer, but …. ?? Regards OM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Hi odd, Take a look here Vuescan@coolscan as "densiometer". I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
salred Posted August 20, 2007 Share #2 Posted August 20, 2007 Good question! I've been wanting to redo my film speed tests (last done when Zone VI was doing them..). A Google search yielded this possibility... Using a scanner as a densitometer... - Large Format Photography Forum Steve A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted August 20, 2007 Share #3 Posted August 20, 2007 odd hi...... i dont think it is a good idea..... even the highest quality scanners like kodak/creo using densitometers to check their calibration and not the other way around..... and just to tell u.... nikon/vuescan doesnt deven comes close to the level of calivration of creo hardware and software combined..... therre are too many variables and too misleads in digital workflow that makes things diffcult enough...... the data should be measured optically....... only optically in apropriate system...... what is the problem....... why u need the densitometer so much ? for super tech accuracy ? then heiland or alike is needed ... a bit expenssive but no way around if that is what u want and need.... otherwise ..... for non-tech needs judge the negative on good light table - "just" is super, "kaiser" is good ones too....... u will see how is the density etc..... how traqnsparent it is and how tonally graduated and difrentiated..... it comes with experince.... if your goal is to make good prints........ i dont think densitometer is needed..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted August 20, 2007 Share #4 Posted August 20, 2007 A pro lab will have its own densitometer for QC . If you send a roll in and ask nicely they will do a set of readings for you. I did this with some 12/120 shot on H/blad when I was going too deeply for my own good into the Zone system. See pg 241 of "The Negative" A.Adams 1981. I shot a grey card for consistency and the results plotted my own film curve for my lens/film/developer combination. For Victor, did it improve my printing, No. Did it improve my images, No Did "The Americans" R.Frank 1959 do that, YES. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted August 21, 2007 Share #5 Posted August 21, 2007 haha christopher... i love robert franck and that image too....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
odd Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted August 21, 2007 Thanks to all of you. This forum doesn’t stop impressing me. What ever question I ever have asked, there are always someone that have an answer, some experience. Literally, from all over the world. I had some developments problem and thought a measurement of the density would help me to detect the cause. I took some exposes in Sone I and II and made an accurate development. As Vic wrote, I could see with my clear eyes and a good magnifier that there was no wrong with the negative. The case was a bottle of Rodinal that I got from a friend - who is lost to the digitals… With fresh D-76 I got great negatives! So, the lesson is, keep fresh chemicals and concentrate on taking good pictures. Regards OM PS! I’ve ordered, and now waiting for, some Fotospeed for Lith print !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotohuis Posted August 21, 2007 Share #7 Posted August 21, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks to all of you. This forum doesn’t stop impressing me. What ever question I ever have asked, there are always someone that have an answer, some experience. Literally, from all over the world. I had some developments problem and thought a measurement of the density would help me to detect the cause. I took some exposes in Sone I and II and made an accurate development. As Vic wrote, I could see with my clear eyes and a good magnifier that there was no wrong with the negative. The case was a bottle of Rodinal that I got from a friend - who is lost to the digitals… With fresh D-76 I got great negatives! So, the lesson is, keep fresh chemicals and concentrate on taking good pictures. Regards OM PS! I’ve ordered, and now waiting for, some Fotospeed for Lith print !!! Well that's interesting to hear because my test on Rodinal and Rodinal 4 y.o. is about 0,03 log D difference on above mentioned Heiland densitometer (TRD-Z). If you're pointing to R09, it's possible because this developer seems to be inactive somewhere between 2-3 years but like with a lot of things you do not know it till you try it. Maybe interesting is this aging test we did with Rodinal (Agfa) 2003 and Rodinal (new) A&O/Agfa. But with almost all liquid chemicals you're right. Old stuff is often very disappointing. Flickr: Discussing Developer test: Rodinal versus Fomadon R09 in RODINAL and here a failure of the R09: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/analog-forum/29829-wie-page-rankingueft-man-entwicklerloesung.html Best regards, Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
odd Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted August 22, 2007 Robert; thanks for your information and your links. The Rodinal was an opened bottle and the liquid is dark brown, chocolate brown. It works because my film was development, but under development don’t know how old the bottle is, can’t find any date. Neither on the bottle nor on the box. I also have an unopened bottle, probable at the same age, but I don’t know. Perhaps you would have an opinion if it’s ok? Regards OM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotohuis Posted August 22, 2007 Share #9 Posted August 22, 2007 Each chemical stuff has a batch number. You can track that down at the factory. They keep records from the production date and used ingredients also. In this case it's maybe impossible to trace the source. (Agfa bankruptcy). Rodinal is yellow/orange when it's new, going to brown in a year of so. Dark brown is also my test bottle 1/3rd filled and I know the color can be black and even then it should work. So your Rodinal should be fine. But even I have not tested Rodinal over 10 years old in a sensiometric test case and I doubt there a people who had the possibility to do that. Reported from the web are glass bottles Rodinal which developed the film. The question is then always: How good and what is the reference? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
odd Posted August 23, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted August 23, 2007 Hi again; Tanks again for sharing of your knowledge. The question is then always: How good and what is the reference? I know, as you say, my Rodinal works but I thinks I ether need extend the development; i.e. longer development time/higher temperature or stronger liquid. I’ l experiment with it some rainy day. Regards OM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotohuis Posted August 23, 2007 Share #11 Posted August 23, 2007 The test is in principle simple: One film, exposed, cut into two parts: Try in old developer one part. Try in brand new Rodinal developer the other part. If things are really different you can see that on the negatives. If you have photographed a grey card and test wedges with both ends and you have a densitometer you have a more scientific test with measured log D values. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierovitch Posted August 27, 2007 Share #12 Posted August 27, 2007 A scanner can be calibrated by using a stepwedge. One in the form of a slide is available from Applied imaging inc. Its not cheap. Kodak used to have calibrated step wedges. Applied Image Inc. - Precision IMAGING: ST-51 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
odd Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share #13 Posted August 29, 2007 Hi, and tanks again. Its seems complicated and expensive to measure the negatives, so I’ l leave it hear. OM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotohuis Posted August 29, 2007 Share #14 Posted August 29, 2007 Hi, and tanks again. Its seems complicated and expensive to measure the negatives, so I’ l leave it hear. OM The cheapest (new) professional densitometer is the Heiland TRD-2 which is Eur. 589,- at the moment. Together with "Tonwerte Perfekt" (Eur. 49,-) you have a complete guide to go through the whole procedure and reproduce the best film-developer curve fitting which is possible. To do this you will not going to make better pictures but produce better negatives and you can compare how reproducible your developing method is. All calibration devices are always expensive, depending on it's reliability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted August 29, 2007 Share #15 Posted August 29, 2007 odd hi......... it is not too compliccated actually, but true..... not sure how helpful it is for better photography .... get used to judging with your eyes working procedure and get used to trust yourself once something works very well for u ........ about expensees........ simply think how much film paper chemicals u can get ) that can really amke pics ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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