Shooting M10M rangefinder with glasses...can't see frame lines?

[Cayenne]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi all,

I'm loving the M10M, but one thing I'm finding, is what when I'm wearing my glasses, and shooting my 35mm Voightlander Ultron (my only M lens to date)...that I can't really easily see the frame lines at times.

I have to shift my head back and forth to see the frame lines in the window.

I thought I saw something once about something you could screw into the viewfinder to adjust the field of view, but don't remember the term for them or if this is what they were for?

Can someone help me if there is a solution for this as that I'm guessing I"m not the only one here with somewhat age related failing eyes and wearing glasses often enough?

 

Thank you in advance,

cayenne

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Tom1234]

1 hour ago, Cayenne said:

Hi all,

I'm loving the M10M, but one thing I'm finding, is what when I'm wearing my glasses, and shooting my 35mm Voightlander Ultron (my only M lens to date)...that I can't really easily see the frame lines at times.

I have to shift my head back and forth to see the frame lines in the window.

I thought I saw something once about something you could screw into the viewfinder to adjust the field of view, but don't remember the term for them or if this is what they were for?

Can someone help me if there is a solution for this as that I'm guessing I"m not the only one here with somewhat age related failing eyes and wearing glasses often enough?

 

Thank you in advance,

cayenne

I wear glasses too, so most of the time I give up on seeing the frame lines.  I just focus, reframe  in a general way as needed, then take the picture. This allows the chosen lens to "do its thing" since each lens has its own affect on the scene.  Wide angle lenses are more inclusive of subject and surround.  Telephoto give more isolation of the subject.  

Yes the mid and center frame lines I can usually see and use.  These are most important since they show you what you might miss if the subject is not included within them.  While the outer wide angle frame lines are needed less since a larger scene is seen by the lens anyway.  Each photographer has their own opinion.

The term you want might be looking for is "High Eye-point" viewfinder meaning that your eye can be further back from the viewing window and still  see all or most of the frame.  This would be like putting a wide angle attachment to the viewfinder.  

But when you screw on the 1.25x (only one I own) or the 1.4x Leica Viewfinder Magnifier a new model, you  can see LESS of the frame lines, like the center and mid frames only and can not see the outer ones.  How about other users - the same for you?  You see less frame lines but you can see better focus on the rangefinder patch. 

Also the magnifier has a really poor jewelry type light weight chain that will drop the magnifier when you are not watching and thus loose it.  Maybe Leica fixed this?  Actually maybe it is the metal rod the chain is attached to inside the magnifier that falls out.  Either way, I lost one myself out in the back yard and the lawn mower no doubt jettisoned it to the moon... you might see it up there if you have a good telescope.  The Leica Viewfinder Magnifiers cost about $350 new when I bought mine - price now $430+.  

I highly suggest you store it in the leather box which hangs on the camera strap - it will probably get stuck there so you need a screwdriver to pry it out of the leather box - so carry a Swiss knife.  Try to find a youtube on the Leica Viewfinder Magnifier before you buy.  

See picture & links below:

 

https://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Technical-Equipment/Viewfinder-Accessories/Viewfinder-magnifiers-M

https://www.35mmc.com/02/04/2017/leica-1-4x-viewfinder-magnifier-review/

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Jeff S]

The M10 VF has higher magnification, a larger diameter opening and better eye relief for eyeglass wearers than prior M digital models.  I have no problem seeing the 35 frame lines without using a separate magnifier, which I find reduces contrast.  I do, however, use thin, flexible frames and high quality lenses to ensure my glasses align well to the eyepiece.  It’s important to keep one’s eye centered for optimal viewing and focusing.  
 

Jeff

[Mute-on]

I think you are looking for a viewfinder correction diopter. 

Here is a thread for reference 

I have no personal experience, but at the rate my close-up focus is deteriorating, I don’t think that will be the case for much longer

[ZoomP]

Part and parcel of wearing glasses.   I won't bother with the magnifier. It didn't stay long on my M9.  It's kinda pertruding and frankly reduces the clarity of the VF.  Just learn to estimate the framelines when you use a 35mm.  Maybe that's why I'm predominantly a 50 shooter.

Edited October 23, 2020 by ZoomP

[jaapv]

11 hours ago, Tom1234 said:

I wear glasses too, so most of the time I give up on seeing the frame lines.  I just focus, reframe  in a general way as needed, then take the picture. This allows the chosen lens to "do its thing" since each lens has its own affect on the scene.  Wide angle lenses are more inclusive of subject and surround.  Telephoto give more isolation of the subject.  

Yes the mid and center frame lines I can usually see and use.  These are most important since they show you what you might miss if the subject is not included within them.  While the outer wide angle frame lines are needed less since a larger scene is seen by the lens anyway.  Each photographer has their own opinion.

The term you want might be looking for is "High Eye-point" viewfinder meaning that your eye can be further back from the viewing window and still  see all or most of the frame.  This would be like putting a wide angle attachment to the viewfinder.  

But when you screw on the 1.25x (only one I own) or the 1.4x Leica Viewfinder Magnifier a new model, you  can see LESS of the frame lines, like the center and mid frames only and can not see the outer ones.  How about other users - the same for you?  You see less frame lines but you can see better focus on the rangefinder patch. 

Also the magnifier has a really poor jewelry type light weight chain that will drop the magnifier when you are not watching and thus loose it.  Maybe Leica fixed this?  Actually maybe it is the metal rod the chain is attached to inside the magnifier that falls out.  Either way, I lost one myself out in the back yard and the lawn mower no doubt jettisoned it to the moon... you might see it up there if you have a good telescope.  The Leica Viewfinder Magnifiers cost about $350 new when I bought mine - price now $430+.  

I highly suggest you store it in the leather box which hangs on the camera strap - it will probably get stuck there so you need a screwdriver to pry it out of the leather box - so carry a Swiss knife.  Try to find a youtube on the Leica Viewfinder Magnifier before you buy.  

See picture & links below:

 

https://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Technical-Equipment/Viewfinder-Accessories/Viewfinder-magnifiers-M

https://www.35mmc.com/02/04/2017/leica-1-4x-viewfinder-magnifier-review/

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

There is a little leather strap inside to pull it out... Additionally Great Thinkers insert it into the leather pouch with the chain to the opening.

[250swb]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've tried both diopter and magnifier and the distraction of taking my glasses off is far worse than the slight inconvenience of having a quick scan around the edges of the frame to see where everything is. After a while you anticipate what you can't see anyway and can just double check if in doubt. I use glasses with flexible frames and I don't have a problem with the M10 viewfinder and a 35mm lens, but find the 28mm frames sometimes just out of sight.

[pedaes]

19 minutes ago, 250swb said:

but find the 28mm frames sometimes just out of sight.

They are not easy to see without glasses either. Just need to find a way...

[LeicaPassion]

I use the brightline 21mm external viewfinder.  The outer framelines work for 21mm and the inner framelines show the 28mm field of view.  Both sets of lines can be seen with glasses.

[Cayenne]

Goodness...

Thank you everyone for the great input!!

 

I'll start researching the viewfinder optic....

I've not donned my contacts in awhile, I might try them, but with glasses I have bi-focals, and in contacts I go the monovision route, which my dominate eye (right) is corrected for distance and my left eye is slightly under corrected for things closer.

I'll try this this weekend and see if that helps matters.

Thin glasses, unfortunately aren't an option for me. I"ve always been very myopic.

When they got right of old Coke back in the days, I think they cut off the bottoms of all those bottles as spare glasses for me. 

I would swear I once got a pair that still said US. REG PAT OFF. at the edges.

 

LOL...thank you everyone!

cayenne

[Jeff S]

5 hours ago, Cayenne said:

Goodness...

Thank you everyone for the great input!!

 

I'll start researching the viewfinder optic....

I've not donned my contacts in awhile, I might try them, but with glasses I have bi-focals, and in contacts I go the monovision route, which my dominate eye (right) is corrected for distance and my left eye is slightly under corrected for things closer.

I'll try this this weekend and see if that helps matters.

Thin glasses, unfortunately aren't an option for me. I"ve always been very myopic.

When they got right of old Coke back in the days, I think they cut off the bottoms of all those bottles as spare glasses for me. 

I would swear I once got a pair that still said US. REG PAT OFF. at the edges.

 

LOL...thank you everyone!

cayenne

Keep in mind that the focus patch on all M bodies is set to a virtual distance of 2m (minus .5 diopter built in).  And be sure to correct for any astigmatism, which can be highly detrimental to M focusing.  I wear glasses to correct for distance and astigmatism, but find the addition of a +.5 diopter further optimizes focusing, which is not unusual for aging eyes.

Jeff

[Dennis]

In my case, with the M10, I can correctly see the 35mm frame lines. A OVF 0.72 is big enough. But I struggle with the 28 frame lines. I often shoot outdoor with sunglasses with my DSLR, but unfortunately, I can't do it with Leica, casue like you I can't see well my frame, and some space around. I got used to shooting w/o sunglasses. I recently entered Leica's world, and this is one of the very few things I don't like about the M system. Being so good in all other ways, I am still super happy.

In my opinion, with what I understood and read-only, there are three options to change the way you see in the OVF. The way. Because for the how you can just add diopters.

1.25x magnifier, where everything will be zoomed by 1/4, and I guess it's more for FL such as 50mm and so on. If you want to see more, you should probably consider the "de-magnifier," the 0.85x, which will zoom out your vision. So you will see better the 35mm frame lines, and even the 28 ones, but your frame lines will be a little bit far away and more challenging to focus on. 

I have on my wishlist this item. I never tried, but I think it can help me have a more comfortable "touch" on the OVF.  

  

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Take a look at this link:

http://blog.ricecracker.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/DIFFERENT-BRIGHTLINE-FRAMES-WITH-0.58X-0.72X-AND-0.85X-LEICA-M-VIEWFINDERS.jpg

This small graphic helped me a lot to understand what it looks like to have a different magnification VF. Imagine for a second, roughly, that the pictures in the middle are your M10. If you use a 0.85x, look at left. If you use the 1.25x, look at right. I repeat, more or less.

Hope this helps.

 

 

[Tom1234]

11 hours ago, jaapv said:

There is a little leather strap inside to pull it out... Additionally Great Thinkers insert it into the leather pouch with the chain to the opening.

The metal rod, that the chain hooks onto, fell out of the magnifier (it fell into that bottomless pit that all things can be lost to)… so the chain will not hold onto the magnifier.  I have not been able to get the little leather strap to work without the chain.