Best setting for SL2 shooting Bird in Flight?

[michali]

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42 minutes ago, NicholasT said:

+1 Just to expand on the excellent advice in this and prior posts...

The more time one spends observing the subject ahead of time studying their behavior, flight patters, lighting, background improves the chances of getting the shot. Also there is no substitute for perseverance and willingness to invest the time just to get the single shot one is visualizing in minds eye.

By way of example the attached owl in flight images were taken with painstaking planning, a lot of patient waiting, repeated visits to shooting location, not to mention many failed attempts.

The last photo in the series involved a total of 3 visits to burrowing owl location over 3 week period (3 hour drive round trip). The shutter speed selection of 1/1250 was no accident as I was trying to get the owl's eyes in focus and yet get a sense of movement in the wings. 

 

Excellent images Nicholas!  Which lens & settings?

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[michali]

Overall I've still been far more successful in capturing birds in flight with my manual focus telephotos when compared to AF lenses. There's the issue of the AF lens hunting for focus, as well as the fact that when trying to use AF lenses in MF mode, there's no stop on the focus ring.

This was taken recently in the Okavango Delta in Botswana -White Winged Tern  (Chlidonias leucopterus)   -SL2 & Carl Zeiss 300mm f2.8 APO-Tessar & Novoflex C/Y-L adapter.

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[NicholasT]

2 minutes ago, michali said:

Excellent images Nicholas!  Which lens & settings?

Hope I'm not violating any forum rules but these images were taken with Nikon 400mm F 2.8 at F4.0 with different shutter speed settings. I've personally found the 400mm F2.8 to be the best lens for wildlife I've ever had the privilege of using. Shortly after taking these photos I made the switch from Nikon to Leica.

I no longer own any Nikon gear and am currently using SL2 / Q2 combo and own both the 90-280 and the new Sigma 100-400. If I was still focused almost exclusively on wildlife, I would not have made the switch from Nikon to Leica. 

That said, I would argue that with a somewhat lower hit rate and more patience, these images could have been taken with SL2 +Leica's 90-280. 

[sillbeers15]

To the untrained eye, a picture is taken by a electro-mechanical device called a camera.
A good shot is actually a combination of planning and trials BTS. 

[helged]

One factor that irritates me with the otherwise outstanding SL-90-280 is that it is mostly useless for quick, manual focus. The reason for this is that the focus – electronically controlled/focus by wire – is accelerated, implying that quick rotation of the focus ring gives large change of focus. For fast and reliable manual focus to work, the focus must be predictable, and thus linear. Everything else means that quick manual focus (e.g. for subjects running/jumping/flying/etc.) ends up in front of or behind the subject, so an additional, slower rotation of the focus ring has to be done, which in turn needs to be corrected, etc. For static subjects, accelerated focus by wire is fine, but not for moving targets.

[NicholasT]

25 minutes ago, helged said:

One factor that irritates me with the otherwise outstanding SL-90-280 is that it is mostly useless for quick, manual focus. The reason for this is that the focus – electronically controlled/focus by wire – is accelerated, implying that quick rotation of the focus ring gives large change of focus. For fast and reliable manual focus to work, the focus must be predictable, and thus linear. Everything else means that quick manual focus (e.g. for subjects running/jumping/flying/etc.) ends up in front of or behind the subject, so an additional, slower rotation of the focus ring has to be done, which in turn needs to be corrected, etc. For static subjects, accelerated focus by wire is fine, but not for moving targets.

Couldn't agree more.

This shot was taken with manual focus on SL 90-280. I would never have attempted to go manual if there was any movement in the subject(s). This is a definite drawback on such an expensive lens.

More often than not I find myself grabbing the new Sigma 100-400. I've been pleasantly surprised with its performance ( in good light ) not to mention its so much easier to carry and handhold than the 90-280.

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Edited November 12, 2020 by NicholasT

[helged]

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50 minutes ago, NicholasT said:

Couldn't agree more.

This shot was taken with manual focus on SL 90-280. I would never have attempted to go manual if there was any movement in the subject(s). This is a definite drawback on such an expensive lens.

More often than not I find myself grabbing the new Sigma 100-400. I've been pleasantly surprised with its performance ( in good light ) not to mention its so much easier to carry and handhold than the 90-280.

+1. Let me add that Leica is aware of the problem - whether an option for linear focus-by-wire emerges remain to be seen...

[caissa]

I think this is an interesting website. Maybe I should not add the link, I don’t want to discourage any users on this thread. But finally I thought this info is still useful. Here a comparison of mirrorless cameras for BIF. Maybe they will later add the S5 or any other Pana Lumix S cameras.

https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/best/mirrorless-cameras-for-birds-in-flight/

Edited November 14, 2020 by caissa

[sillbeers15]

There are limitations in reach from the 90-280mm. However the sharpness & contrast of the lens is nothing less than outstanding. To overcome the reach, there are alternatives to hauling a 500mm or longer lens. Below is an example of the SL2's autofocus set at AF-C tracking on a 12cm Stork Billed Kingfisher flying towards me. I've deliberately chosen a lower than usual shutter speed of 1/1250 sec with f4 to show motion blur on the bird's wing tips. I found the location of scene ideal for the BIF on an earlier visit which I shot the bird stationary on a tree. The bird takes a path no further than 3 meters from my position accross me above water. I also found the sun's position from the left of the shot ideal. After returning back to the scene failed 4 times. I finally managed to capture what I wanted on the 5th visit. During the shoot, another hobbist photographer came over to chat. He showed me his out of focus shot of the kingfisher in flight and asked me what camera I was using. He mumbled that he could get a focused BIF if only he was using my camera make and not his Nikon D850. I casually laughed hearing the comment as I am sure his camera settings were not optimised. It sounds all too often hearing comments in this forum by some members saying the SL / SL2 is useless for BIF and only Canon & Nikon can do the job. Iam happy with my SL2 & 90-280mm combination until a worthy Sigma L mount lens with longer focal comes available. Besides I expect the SL2 & S1/R camera's AF firmware to improve over time.

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stork billed kingfisher-1010052-6 by sillbeers15

[rim_light]

As I just stumbled over this thread I wanted to show a pic of BIF with backlight I did a while ago. But it was a hard fight to get the AF to work...

Leica SL2 with 90-280 @ 280 heavily cropped

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[sillbeers15]

11 hours ago, rim_light said:

As I just stumbled over this thread I wanted to show a pic of BIF with backlight I did a while ago. But it was a hard fight to get the AF to work...

Leica SL2 with 90-280 @ 280 heavily cropped

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If you’re trying to optimise the AF success rate of the SL/SL2, a back light situation creates a lower success rate as compared to a good direct Light on the subject. In 2017 I went for a shootout on a local airshow. There were two identical sessions for the day, one in the morning and another in the afternoon. The grand stand was facing east. With the exact flyby. My AF success rate of my SL (then) was way better in the afternoon when the sun was at my back.

For any epic BIF shots, you can see all are with good light on subject. Good light not only provide great details of the subject but also brings viewer’s attention to subject.

[rim_light]

1 hour ago, sillbeers15 said:

If you’re trying to optimise the AF success rate of the SL/SL2, a back light situation creates a lower success rate as compared to a good direct Light on the subject. In 2017 I went for a shootout on a local airshow. There were two identical sessions for the day, one in the morning and another in the afternoon. The grand stand was facing east. With the exact flyby. My AF success rate of my SL (then) was way better in the afternoon when the sun was at my back.

For any epic BIF shots, you can see all are with good light on subject. Good light not only provide great details of the subject but also brings viewer’s attention to subject.

I know this. Thank you. Just wanted to share the experience that it is possible to shoot with backlight...

[sillbeers15]

35 minutes ago, rim_light said:

I know this. Thank you. Just wanted to share the experience that it is possible to shoot with backlight...

The SL does not behave as well as the SL2 against backlight. I had several experiences of the AF going completely off ( towards opposite direction of focus) when the shutter release button was pressed with AFC setting. I did not have this experience with the SL2 since having the camera for a year. 

[helged]

58 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

The SL does not behave as well as the SL2 against backlight. I had several experiences of the AF going completely off ( towards opposite direction of focus) when the shutter release button was pressed with AFC setting. I did not have this experience with the SL2 since having the camera for a year. 

And with FW update similar to those recently released for Lumix S1/S1R/S1H/S5, things will further improve. Not that I think/dream of SL2 being in the league of the big af-players (CaNikSon), but good enough for most. No, I don't know that SL2 will get such an af update, but the chances should be good based on the Panasonic partnership, as well as the powerfull Maestro III processor in SL2. An AF-update, plus a long L-mount prime, would be very welcome!

Edited November 29, 2020 by helged

[Ktsa5239]

Just resurrecting this thread since now that we have the sigma 150-600 has anyone found better settings to use for BIF?

it seems to me that big or medium size birds are ok with zone or field but tracking doesn’t work for small birds, it struggles to lock and when it does it sometimes pulses in and out of focus.

[sillbeers15]

I am still in the process of figuring out what's 'good' and what's 'not' about the Sig150-600mm.

At this stage of having the lens for less than 2 weeks, I found it rewarding and yet challenging. It is especially challenging when I'm still getting inconsistent results over various focus settings. On AF settings, I do not really see a fixed rule as i find different settings suitable for different situation. Zone focus can be good settings for BIF when the background is clear sky but useless when there are bushes in the background. I still find tracking useful.

Over time, I've learn to be more patient. Wait for the BIF to approach closer in frame before activiting the AF to track it. Another golden rule I follow is to ensure there is ample and good directional light. Not only do the subject look great, lower ISO can be maintained with a high shutter speed & wide open aperture. More importantly, the AF performs much more reliable. 

[Boojay]

1 hour ago, Ktsa5239 said:

Just resurrecting this thread since now that we have the sigma 150-600 has anyone found better settings to use for BIF?

it seems to me that big or medium size birds are ok with zone or field but tracking doesn’t work for small birds, it struggles to lock and when it does it sometimes pulses in and out of focus.

It's not a settings issue, and it's not the lens.. it's simply the AF system is not up to it - end of!!   Ok, so you can persevere and in the perfect conditions you may get a useable shot out of many many failures, but it's not the system/camera/or mount for anyone serious about BIF photography.  I don't say this to offend, and I'm very glad the Sigma 150-600 came along, I have it and the 1.4 TC and use them on the SL2 and CL but I recognise and accept the limitations and just continue to try and work around them.

 

 

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, Ktsa5239 said:

Just resurrecting this thread since now that we have the sigma 150-600 has anyone found better settings to use for BIF?

it seems to me that big or medium size birds are ok with zone or field but tracking doesn’t work for small birds, it struggles to lock and when it does it sometimes pulses in and out of focus.

I find the Sig 150-600mm struggles to lock focus much more than SL90-280mm on SL2. I did not find it to matter on the size of the bird. I experienced the problem when I was trying to lock focus on hornbill in flight.

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[Phil A]

The better the light and contrast, the better the continuous focus, of course. Low light generally just leads to frustration.

[sillbeers15]

2 hours ago, Phil A said:

The better the light and contrast, the better the continuous focus, of course. Low light generally just leads to frustration.

Even if you get a perfectly focused shot, the low contrast subject cannot make a great shot.

In general, we spend so much to acquire a lens to create a nice bokeh but the illumination on subject to create the same contrast is not much talked about other than strobes applied in portraiture photography.