Summicron DR

[Dukeviolin]

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Disclaimer...I didn't do a search on this forum for related answers. 
Question : why does my 50mm f2 Summicron Dual range have a wobbly barrel ? 
The elements unscrew as they are supposed to do, so the front of the lens is fine. It's the rear of the barrel which seems to have a wobble. 

I assume there is someone out there with some practical working experience of these lenses and their workings.
Yes I have seen the exploded diagrams for repair of this lens, but they don't say what's what...only diagrams. 
I shall await some form of reply. 
Thanks, Ben. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Dukeviolin

[jaeger]

2 out of my 4 leica lenses had wobbling issue.  they aren't 50 cron, they were 24 lux asph and 50 lux asph if you care.  the 24 lux was so badly wobbled that I thought it will break into 2 pieces (like truly floating element I joke to myself...)  both were sent to leica to fix under warranty.  I don't see anything unusual to hear your lens "floating" but for the quality control stand point, it's terrible!

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by jaeger

[Ko.Fe.]

DR is old lens. It is common for old lenses. 

[Dukeviolin]

'if you care' = no I don't since they are not related to the lens in point. 
Thanks. 
'DR is old lens. It is common for old lenses'
Well, it may common in some lenses but I've owned bought and sold many and not seen the lens barrel wobble so much except perhaps on 
cheaper zoom lenses. 
Some useful tips on how to fix the problem (I am able to do so) would help. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Dukeviolin

[M9reno]

The lens has probably been taken apart and put back together by someone who didn't know what they were doing.

And/ or this could just be a case of the lens needing re-greasing of its focusing helicoid.

Either way, it shouldn't behave that way.  Unless the lens is a workhorse that went through a war, the 'old lens' excuse won't hold.  Sending it in to a repair expert will likely solve the problem.

Edited October 23, 2020 by M9reno

[Charles Morgan]

Sorry to hear it. Mine is entirely fine and feels as rigid as the day that it was born. It is possibly the most over-engineered lens made by Leitz. Can't help further!

 

[a.noctilux]

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Ben,

when you unscrewed the optical cell then shake the cell, some noise ?

Do the engravings align ( share some pics ) ?

I came across dozen of Summicron DR, never had seen wobble on mount.

They are the best 'mechanical' in Summicron 50mm.

 

Arnaud

Edited October 23, 2020 by a.noctilux

[BrianS]

The Rigid Summicron and DR Summicron have the identical barrel, the only difference between the two is the focus mount. From reading your description, the problem is with the optical barrel and not the focus mount.

I have taken apart three different Type 1 Rigid Summicrons.

The worst: three of the inner groups were inserted backwards. One had to be pried out. 

The other two- the optics were in very tight. Had to use suction cups primed with cleaning fluid to get enough suction to pull the glass out. It is the most over-engineered lens made  that I have ever taken apart.

At this point- posting some images of the lens would help. These lenses are old, and you never know what someone has done to repair/misrepair them. I have seen lenses with "random elements" put in place to make the lens appear as whole.

Edited October 23, 2020 by BrianS

[BrianS]

This is the diagram that I made years ago. You can see that many washers are used to hold the elements in against the retaining rings. Added- I made this 14 years ago, using a Nikon E3 DSLR from 1997. It used my SB-29 Macro-Speedlite, with the 60mm F2.8 AF-Micro-Nikkor. SO- picture of a Leica lens, NOT taken using a Leica lens or camera.

If the washers and retaining rings are all there- it could be that some of the groups were replaced with ones that have smaller diameter. I had the problem of repairing a T1 Rigid that needed a new front element. I had a spare, but it was slightly larger diameter than the element being replaced. I had to bore out the barrel. It worked. The T1 Summicron is from the Fit and Finish era of lenses.

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Edited October 23, 2020 by BrianS

[Dukeviolin]

Yes the engravings align correctly and it looks as it should.  
The elements and front housing make no sounds or wobble, all fine there. 
It's the back focusing end which seems a bit loose. I'd thought it may me do to with the spring loaded DR mechanism...I have the goggles and it all works ok.
So I thought maybe there's a retaining ring which needs tightening, tried to no avail to fix it but will persist...since it's a glorious bit of kit. 
I also have a full set of filters in cases, the polarising filter and the correct hood with cap, and the original case for the lens. 
The whole kit is quite mint apart from the 'wobble' of the barrel. 
In research of youtube etc I found very little information about repairs, so far.