Closeup lens recommendation for M3

[Jennifer Yue]

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Hello all,

      I am new to photography and determined to learn how to use a Leica M3.  It is currently being calibrated, etc.  My dad loved his Leica and some of my favorite photos of my daughter were taken with a closeup Leica lens.  They were crisp yet had a beautiful roundness to the edges of the image. (My phone photo of the photo isn’t great—please forgive me).  What lens would you think may have been used?  Any suggestions on what lenses I should have for this, and small flowers?  Thank you so much for your help.—Jennifer

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[jaapv]

Leica M cameras are not  suited for  closer than 1 meter. There are two exceptions: The Dual-range Summicron 50 and Macro-Elmar 90. Otherwise there is the Visoflex 3 mirror attachment.

[adan]

My personal favorite Leica M lens for closeups is the 75mm APO-Summicron, followed closely by the less-expensive 75 Summarit f/2.4. They focus as close as a 50mm - but with 50% more magnification. I use one or the other all the time and they are very suited for pictures closer than 1m.

BUT - and it is a big but - they are not ideal for use on an M3, since the M3 has no framing lines for the 75mm view of the world. The lenses will mount and focus correctly**, but it will be painful trying to get the edges of the picture in the right place without a lot of practice or guesswork. **And most M3s have probably not had the modification that allows them to use the full focus range from 1 meter to 0.7 meters - yours may not.

So I would second Jaap's suggestion of the 50mm Summicron DR (dual-range). Which was specifically created by Leitz/Leica in the M3 era exactly and precisely for "close-ups" with their new camera, down to the tight portrait range.

https://www.cameraquest.com/m50dr.htm

It may take a little hunting to find a complete set with the accessory close-focus goggles (although I see several on - that - auction site), or find the lens and goggles separately to make a set. But for an M3, a brilliant addition (and with the goggles popped off, it is also a very good normal 50mm lens for general use, despite its age).

The image below is the full picture (no cropping) from an M10 digital Leica with the 50mm DR and the clip-on accessory close-up focusing goggles. Showing just how close it can get - and she is a small cat, at that. It should work just like this on an M3 also.

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[ironringer]

Welcome Mme Yue to the wonderful world of Leica film photography. The M3 is an excellent camera and after the usual Clean Lube Adjust service by a qualified technician it will work for many years. As our moderator says, standard Leica lenses are not suited for close-ups. But the well-respected Dual Range Summicron 50mm will work well with the M3, and will focus down to 50 centimeters. You will pay good money for one in fine condition, but the results are worth the price.

However as you experiment with a standard Leica 5cm or 50mm lens, even an older screwmount type with an M-adapter for the M3, you will find the pictures are sharp enough to allow closer cropping of the digital scan files, for effective printing of "close-up" pictures. Before investing in a more expensive "close-up" lens, I suggest that you take many pictures with a standard lens - Elmar, Summicron, or older Summitar. All of these produce fine results, even after cropping for closer images-prints.

[Jennifer Yue]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Leica M cameras are not  suited for  closer than 1 meter. There are two exceptions: The Dual-range Summicron 50 and Macro-Elmar 90. Otherwise there is the Visoflex 3 mirror attachment.

Thank you.  Do you mind telling me more about the Visoflex 3 mirror attachment?  

[Jennifer Yue]

2 hours ago, adan said:

My personal favorite Leica M lens for closeups is the 75mm APO-Summicron, followed closely by the less-expensive 75 Summarit f/2.4. They focus as close as a 50mm - but with 50% more magnification. I use one or the other all the time and they are very suited for pictures closer than 1m.

BUT - and it is a big but - they are not ideal for use on an M3, since the M3 has no framing lines for the 75mm view of the world. The lenses will mount and focus correctly**, but it will be painful trying to get the edges of the picture in the right place without a lot of practice or guesswork. **And most M3s have probably not had the modification that allows them to use the full focus range from 1 meter to 0.7 meters - yours may not.

So I would second Jaap's suggestion of the 50mm Summicron DR (dual-range). Which was specifically created by Leitz/Leica in the M3 era exactly and precisely for "close-ups" with their new camera, down to the tight portrait range.

https://www.cameraquest.com/m50dr.htm

It may take a little hunting to find a complete set with the accessory close-focus goggles (although I see several on - that - auction site), or find the lens and goggles separately to make a set. But for an M3, a brilliant addition (and with the goggles popped off, it is also a very good normal 50mm lens for general use, despite its age).

The image below is the full picture (no cropping) from an M10 digital Leica with the 50mm DR and the clip-on accessory close-up focusing goggles. Showing just how close it can get - and she is a small cat, at that. It should work just like this on an M3 also.

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Thank you so much for your insight.  That is a really beautiful photo.

[Jennifer Yue]

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2 hours ago, ironringer said:

Welcome Mme Yue to the wonderful world of Leica film photography. The M3 is an excellent camera and after the usual Clean Lube Adjust service by a qualified technician it will work for many years. As our moderator says, standard Leica lenses are not suited for close-ups. But the well-respected Dual Range Summicron 50mm will work well with the M3, and will focus down to 50 centimeters. You will pay good money for one in fine condition, but the results are worth the price.

However as you experiment with a standard Leica 5cm or 50mm lens, even an older screwmount type with an M-adapter for the M3, you will find the pictures are sharp enough to allow closer cropping of the digital scan files, for effective printing of "close-up" pictures. Before investing in a more expensive "close-up" lens, I suggest that you take many pictures with a standard lens - Elmar, Summicron, or older Summitar. All of these produce fine results, even after cropping for closer images-prints.

Thank you so much for your helpful suggestions.  I really appreciate it.

[a.noctilux]

Hello Jennifer,

If you tell us which lens you have attached to your M3, we may have some ideas to help you more.

 

This link to Visoflex of Wiki very complicated (if universal ) system that I use for some decades with pleasure.

I'm fan of DR Summicron (SOMNI, like this... ) which is fine but maybe depending on your present lens, SOMKY (like this link from Wiki may be used ).

Edited September 14, 2020 by a.noctilux

[Jennifer Yue]

27 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello Jennifer,

If you tell us which lens you have attached to your M3, we may have some ideas to help you more.

 

This link to Visoflex of Wiki very complicated (if universal ) system that I use for some decades with pleasure.

I'm fan of DR Summicron (SOMNI, like this... ) which is fine but maybe depending on your present lens, SOMKY (like this link from Wiki may be used ).

There is a Summicron M 50mm f/2 Rigid mount and MR meter on this Double Stroke M3.

He had a Visoflex adapter but I don’t remember the camera being that bulky as he took these photos of my daughter.  The photo below is uncropped.  I am assuming, though, that it was the M3 he was using and not his Leicaflex SL camera.  All your thoughts much appreciated.

[a.noctilux]

Thanks,

Summicron Rigid has same optical cell as Dual Range Summicron, so if it's the case you would have mostly same rendering.

SOMKY + UOORF  can be used after unscrewing the optical cell of your Rigid.

You can focus to 48cm at closest distance.

As side note, on Leicaflex SL, the Summicron-R 50mm can focus to 50cm from film plane.

 

Arnaud

[Jennifer Yue]

5 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Thanks,

Summicron Rigid has same optical cell as Dual Range Summicron, so if it's the case you would have mostly same rendering.

SOMKY + UOORF  can be used after unscrewing the optical cell of your Rigid.

You can focus to 48cm at closest distance.

As side note, on Leicaflex SL, the Summicron-R 50mm can focus to 50cm from film plane.

 

Arnaud

Thanks so much, Arnaud.  I appreciate learning this.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Jennifer Yue said:

Thank you.  Do you mind telling me more about the Visoflex 3 mirror attachment?  

That is more easily asked than done. It is basically a mirror box that turns the M camera into a primitive SLR. As simple as the concept may be, the convoluted the system that comes with it is. There is a vast array of dedicated lenses, adapters, viewfinders, focusing adapters, bellows, microscope attachments, etc. Once you have selected -and found!- the parts needed for your photographic purpose, it works surprisingly well, albeit somewhat slow.

[Prosophos]

Another vote for the 50mm Dual Range Summicron for close-up work on the M3. 

It looks like this on the camera (with the "goggles" attached for close-up work):

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And here are some examples of close up work with this combination, on Kodak Tri-X film:

 

 

[tommonego@gmail.com]

With the M3 you can also use a Visoflex II, but it is more primitive than the III, you have to reset the mirror on each exposure, the lever is right where a finger of the hand you use for the shutter. It is also best with either Viso to get the double cable release. The Dual Range Summicron is an excellent lens, one of my favorites, it can get close but not really in a macro range. I am not that familiar with the workings of the 90 Elmar macro but I would look into it for closer focusing, the head of the lens cam be used on a Visoflex, there is also a 65mm Visoflex macro which has a good reputation.

[Charles Morgan]

1 hour ago, Prosophos said:

Another vote for the 50mm Dual Range Summicron for close-up work on the M3. 

It looks like this on the camera (with the "goggles" attached for close-up work):

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

And here are some examples of close up work with this combination, on Kodak Tri-X film:

 

 

They are absolutely beautiful photos. I also have the DR Summicron and I think it is an exquisite lens. They are, by Leica standards, not hugely expensive, and give you so much flexibility, and frankly if looked after will still be producing superb images for years to come. 

[spydrxx]

An alternative I used long before I got a Visoflex, and never had a dual range Summicron, was a 90mm (take your choice of lenses) or 135mm Tele-elmar. Not close-up per se (unless used on a Visoflex), but at normal distances providing greater magnification than a 50mm lens. I used both to photograph my infant and young daughter years ago. Some people find focusing a bit tough, as there is less room for error, but it is certainly doable.

[Jennifer Yue]

2 hours ago, Prosophos said:

Another vote for the 50mm Dual Range Summicron for close-up work on the M3. 

It looks like this on the camera (with the "goggles" attached for close-up work):

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

And here are some examples of close up work with this combination, on Kodak Tri-X film:

 

 

Wowwwwww----Your photos are absolutely stunning and exactly what I love.  That is ever more inspiration for me to learn.  Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.

[Jennifer Yue]

26 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

An alternative I used long before I got a Visoflex, and never had a dual range Summicron, was a 90mm (take your choice of lenses) or 135mm Tele-elmar. Not close-up per se (unless used on a Visoflex), but at normal distances providing greater magnification than a 50mm lens. I used both to photograph my infant and young daughter years ago. Some people find focusing a bit tough, as there is less room for error, but it is certainly doable.

I see.  Thank you.  Just curious which 90mm or 135mm Tele-Elamar did you choose use for your children years ago and how much closer to the image would a Visoflex allow?

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[a.noctilux]

Side note concerning Summicron DR ...

 

Some years ago, I didn't know that Ralph Gibson was a user of DR Summicron.

When I knew that, the Master inspired me for long, but I've never found how to use DR at best.

Maybe, because I used Kodachrome by then  ?

😉

Now for some years, with Monochrom, I know me better, I do feel better not to imitate Him.

this is from Him

and my pale imitation

(posted here)

Edited September 14, 2020 by a.noctilux

[spydrxx]

6 hours ago, Jennifer Yue said:

I see.  Thank you.  Just curious which 90mm or 135mm Tele-Elamar did you choose use for your children years ago and how much closer to the image would a Visoflex allow?

Depending on which lens one uses on a Visoflex - you can get quite close - I've attached a chart to be your guide. I initially used a 90mm Summicron, but found it too big and heavy, although it produced lovely pictures/ Eventually ended up with a 90mm Elmarit. I actually preferred using a 135 mm Tele-elmar. One feature of both was that the front lens head unscrewed from the body and could be used on the Visoflex like a single lens reflex camera. I've attached a quick shot near my daughter's 1st birthday - taken with the 135.

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