SUMMILUX 35mm 1.4 fle Bokeh question.

[Tae Hong Kim]

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Hi guys! I recently get the Summilux 35mm 1.4 fle, which is my dream lens  but I find that the bokeh isn't perfectly round with 1.4 but little beyond the 1.4(may be 1.39..?).

So I wonder this happen with all Summilux 35mm fle lenses or just mine. by the way, I am using APS-C(1.5 crop) sensor body.

I attach the picture. I magnify the center.

Please HELP!

Beyond 1.4

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F1.4

 

 

 

BEST REGARDS

Edited August 18, 2020 by Tae Hong Kim

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[evikne]

I think this is normal. I've had two copies that behave the same way. Here is another thread about the same issue:

But I wonder if the perfectly round aperture equals to f/1.4, and the slightly more jagged is a tiny bit below. I don't know if it is possible to measure the light transmission in some way to get the answer. In any way, I don't think the difference is large enough to have any practical significance.

Edited August 18, 2020 by evikne

[jankap]

The 2 orange ones at the left side are round. 

The one in the middle shows 9 blades in the aperture, that is according to the specs. Beyond f/1.4 the blades are hidden.

Edited August 18, 2020 by jankap

[colint544]

Some modern Leica lenses are just a fraction off fully open when set to their maximum aperture. You have to move the aperture ring, as you say, beyond 1.4. I have the 35mm Summilux FLE, and if I don't do that, I get the same result as you. If you look down the front of the lens, you'll see the blades intruding slightly, if you don't turn the aperture ring as far as it will go.

Why this is a feature of such an eye-wateringly expensive lens, I've no idea. The vintage Leica lenses don't do that.

[haikos]

On 8/19/2020 at 7:48 AM, colint544 said:

Why this is a feature of such an eye-wateringly expensive lens, I've no idea. The vintage Leica lenses don't do that.

I don't have any Leica lenses but I've handled a Germany made V4 35mm Summicron which behaves the same way regarding the aperture dial going a hair past f2 and the aperture blades opening up the same amount and if memory serves, it did the same thing at the other end of the dial.

[pedaes]

Welcome. Interesting first question !

Is the lens new? It may be adjustable if  the effect is important to you. 

Are the examples from a image of something or have you just created this 'Bokeh' to demonstrate issue?

[colint544]

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2 hours ago, haikos said:

I don't have any Leica lenses but I've handled a Germany made V4 35mm Summicron which behaves the same way regarding the aperture dial going a hair past f2 and the aperture blades opening up the same amount and if memory serves, it did the same thing at the other end of the dial.

I can only speak from my own experience. I have a 90mm Tele-Elmarit (1969) and a 35mm Summaron 2.8 (1960), and the aperture rings on both of them operate precisely, and stop dead at maximum aperture. But you make a good point - my experience is a tiny fraction of everyone else. I only know my own lenses. Cheers!

[Tae Hong Kim]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 3:25 PM, evikne said:

I think this is normal. I've had two copies that behave the same way. Here is another thread about the same issue:

But I wonder if the perfectly round aperture equals to f/1.4, and the slightly more jagged is a tiny bit below. I don't know if it is possible to measure the light transmission in some way to get the answer. In any way, I don't think the difference is large enough to have any practical significance.

Thank you so much for your reply!! :)

[Tae Hong Kim]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 6:22 PM, jankap said:

The 2 orange ones at the left side are round. 

The one in the middle shows 9 blades in the aperture, that is according to the specs. Beyond f/1.4 the blades are hidden.

Thank you so much for your reply! :)

I thought when the apature hit the maximum brightness, they are usually have perfect round bokeh, so I had a question :) but now I solve it!!

[Tae Hong Kim]

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 8:48 PM, colint544 said:

Some modern Leica lenses are just a fraction off fully open when set to their maximum aperture. You have to move the aperture ring, as you say, beyond 1.4. I have the 35mm Summilux FLE, and if I don't do that, I get the same result as you. If you look down the front of the lens, you'll see the blades intruding slightly, if you don't turn the aperture ring as far as it will go.

Why this is a feature of such an eye-wateringly expensive lens, I've no idea. The vintage Leica lenses don't do that.

Thank you so much for your reply! :)

I have very same opinion with you. I don't know why they make like this. all the other cheap lens still show me a round shape bokeh when the apature blades are fully open.

[Tae Hong Kim]

14 hours ago, pedaes said:

Welcome. Interesting first question !

Is the lens new? It may be adjustable if  the effect is important to you. 

Are the examples from a image of something or have you just created this 'Bokeh' to demonstrate issue?

Yes, Lens are new, which made in July 2019 and I had actual picture :) I notice those effect when I take a portraits with f1.4. with lot's of lights at the back ground. So I take that picture to demonstrate it :)

[mmradman]

I can only assume the usual suspect, wonky QC at Leica. One would expect eye wateringly expensive lens to be perfect in every way, that is how luxury goods are supposed to be sold.  Try selling new Rolls Royce with a scratch on the bonnet.

My first lens by Leica, back in 2009, was R APO Elemarit 180mm for which i changed mount flange from R to Nikon F, since than reversed to the original mount.  As i was removing and re attaching the flange i noticed similar phenomenon with the aperture blades sticking out at max aperture but i was able to reduce the amount and even eliminate during the flange assembly.

[jaeger]

all 4 of my leica lenses have that mini click.  but I've never check the bokeh-balls like you did.

[evikne]

If am in a situation where I want perfectly round bokeh balls, I make sure that the aperture is fully opened, past the f/1.4 click. But I must be careful, because a small thump on the lens can be enough to make it bounce back to the standard position.

[adan]

Leitz/Leica has often - on some lenses - designed the glass to be oversized, and then hand-adjusted the aperture itself, per lens, to provide the exact diameter for proper exposure.

This is why the f/2.5 Summarits could magically become f/2.4 lenses - Leica just allowed the blades to open up a bit more to use "all" the glass.

[Tae Hong Kim]

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 8:57 PM, jaeger said:

all 4 of my leica lenses have that mini click.  but I've never check the bokeh-balls like you did.

Thank you so much for your reply!

Oh you should check this... I was so disappointed when I notice this Bokeh-Balls are not perfectly round when I fully(f1.4) open.

I love this lens in all aspect except that issue.

 

Best Regards

[Tae Hong Kim]

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 6:03 PM, mmradman said:

I can only assume the usual suspect, wonky QC at Leica. One would expect eye wateringly expensive lens to be perfect in every way, that is how luxury goods are supposed to be sold.  Try selling new Rolls Royce with a scratch on the bonnet.

My first lens by Leica, back in 2009, was R APO Elemarit 180mm for which i changed mount flange from R to Nikon F, since than reversed to the original mount.  As i was removing and re attaching the flange i noticed similar phenomenon with the aperture blades sticking out at max aperture but i was able to reduce the amount and even eliminate during the flange assembly.

Thank you so much for your reply!

I am totally agree with you. That summilux lens are actually the one I replace the first one as I find a tiny tiny tint on the surface of the front glass. I know this would not affect in quality of the picture but feel terrible as I thought leica lens are perfect.

 

Best Regards

[Tae Hong Kim]

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 9:43 PM, evikne said:

If am in a situation where I want perfectly round bokeh balls, I make sure that the aperture is fully opened, past the f/1.4 click. But I must be careful, because a small thump on the lens can be enough to make it bounce back to the standard position.

Thank you so much for your reply!  

I will do that when I take a picture with lot's of bokeh balls  

 

Best Regards

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[Tae Hong Kim]

On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 6:59 PM, adan said:

Leitz/Leica has often - on some lenses - designed the glass to be oversized, and then hand-adjusted the aperture itself, per lens, to provide the exact diameter for proper exposure.

This is why the f/2.5 Summarits could magically become f/2.4 lenses - Leica just allowed the blades to open up a bit more to use "all" the glass.

Thank you so much for your reply! 

Oh..! that's why they have an extra bit! Now I am understand why my lens do that!  

 

Best Regards

[jev_dk]

@Tae Hong Kim greetings from Copenhagen, Denmark. Just bought a 35 FLE and I have the same issue - it seems all of the 35 FLE are like that. Just getting to know the lens - it takes time