Got my second M-A and it's a little different

[logan2z]

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23 minutes ago, malligator said:

I bought my M-A at the beginning of July. Its fit, finish, and function have been flawless. Believe me, when it comes to "luxury" items like this I have an EXTREMELY critical eye for even the smallest of issues. I can't find any.

It's been around my neck or over my shoulder everywhere I go for almost three months now without even a hint of a hiccup.

Same experience with mine and it just turned three years old.  Zero regrets. 

[Börje Norhager]

On 7/22/2020 at 9:26 AM, swordmanc said:

Likee all previous 3 brand new M-As, this M-A also has some minor issues, e.g. its frame counter doesn't reset and gets stuck at "20". I have to hold the camera tight and push the top plate from back, to somehow release the tension inside and then it will reset.

 

I think I have got this problem with my otherwise very beautiful ”near mint” M4P which I just bought and received...an eBay purchase...

The counter is apparently is “dead locked” at approx 41 exposures and does not move at all.

What to do? Return the camera to the seller, and claim my money back according to purchase terms? It was announced as a collector’s item, in excellent condition, fully functioning. Immaculate seller rating. My two other M Leicas do not behave this way.

Please advise - I would be ever so grateful for help!

[Axelwik]

Disappointing. Guess I'll stick to my vintage M cameras.

[logan2z]

41 minutes ago, Axelwik said:

Disappointing. Guess I'll stick to my vintage M cameras.

Well, the post right above yours is about an M4-P with an issue, so nothing is immune.  

[a.noctilux]

58 minutes ago, Börje Norhager said:

I think I have got this problem with my otherwise very beautiful ”near mint” M4P which I just bought and received...an eBay purchase...

The counter is apparently is “dead locked” at approx 41 exposures and does not move at all.

What to do? Return the camera to the seller, and claim my money back according to purchase terms? It was announced as a collector’s item, in excellent condition, fully functioning. Immaculate seller rating. My two other M Leicas do not behave this way.

Please advise - I would be ever so grateful for help!

Börje, when you open the base plate of M4-P, is the "counter reset lever" functioning (push it with your thumb ?).

If it works, ...if you don't mind, give a hard tap near the counter, the "reset" mechanism can be stuck with non-use..

[Börje Norhager]

13 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Börje, when you open the base plate of M4-P, is the "counter reset lever" functioning (push it with your thumb ?).

If it works, ...if you don't mind, give a hard tap near the counter, the "reset" mechanism can be stuck with non-use..

Thanks a lot dear Noctilux for your suggestion...is this the "counter reset lever" you mean? Please see image below! I have tried to move/avtivate it, but no success re. the picture frame counter - it still remains on "40", sorry to say...

 - Your second tip doesn´t help either. A repair is probably expensive, right?  And I don´t have a repair shop closer than 500 miles! (Stockholm) I live in the far north of Sweden.

A second "flaw" I found, is that if I press lightly with a finger in the top left corner of the "film hatch", it can be pushed in a fraction of a millimeter just there...but not in the other  3 corners... that does not feel "near mint" to me...(refer to second image below)

I have a few days to decide whether I shall return the camera body to the seller, invoking the eBay "money back" clause...I paid €1689:- for the camera body - was that a decent price if these two "flaws" hadn´t existed?? Now a major price reduction must be called for in my opinion. Otherwise the camera is completely beautiful...works well in all other aspects as far as I know, and I have already developed myself one rapidly exposed 400 iso Fomapan film... with fully satisfactory result!

I would be please to receive your experienced advice!! (and of course all other community reader comments!)

Have a nice day -

/B

 

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[a.noctilux]

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yes

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

when you push/pull this lever/pin, does-it move a bit (1-2 millimeter ) ?

 

If you keep this M4-P, and if you want to repair this yourself buying the tools,

this may help (Feuerbacher site)

Edited January 14, 2021 by a.noctilux

[Börje Norhager]

Thanks, Arnaud! Your suggestions are much appreciated!

/B

 

 

[Mr.Prime]

2 hours ago, Börje Norhager said:

Thanks a lot dear Noctilux for your suggestion...is this the "counter reset lever" you mean? Please see image below! I have tried to move/avtivate it, but no success re. the picture frame counter - it still remains on "40", sorry to say...

 - Your second tip doesn´t help either. A repair is probably expensive, right?  And I don´t have a repair shop closer than 500 miles! (Stockholm) I live in the far north of Sweden.

A second "flaw" I found, is that if I press lightly with a finger in the top left corner of the "film hatch", it can be pushed in a fraction of a millimeter just there...but not in the other  3 corners... that does not feel "near mint" to me...(refer to second image below)

I have a few days to decide whether I shall return the camera body to the seller, invoking the eBay "money back" clause...I paid €1689:- for the camera body - was that a decent price if these two "flaws" hadn´t existed?? Now a major price reduction must be called for in my opinion. Otherwise the camera is completely beautiful...works well in all other aspects as far as I know, and I have already developed myself one rapidly exposed 400 iso Fomapan film... with fully satisfactory result!

I would be please to receive your experienced advice!! (and of course all other community reader comments!)

Have a nice day -

/B

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

As far as I know there is no issue with that film door. Both my M’s have a little play, it’s a handbuilt unit which would need to have all the stackup tolerances be tiny in order to avoid this, which is not going to happen except for the fortunate few.

[Börje Norhager]

21 minutes ago, Mr.Prime said:

As far as I know there is no issue with that film door. Both my M’s have a little play, it’s a handbuilt unit which would need to have all the stackup tolerances be tiny in order to avoid this, which is not going to happen except for the fortunate few.

Thanks Mr. Prime! Your opinion is well noted...calls for careful consideration what to do next. No opinion so far on paid price...was I conned (f***ed)?

To pay that price for an A- camera condition, stated by the seller to be a collector’s item (without the flaws mentioned), was it stupid or reasonable?

/B

[BradS]

3 hours ago, Börje Norhager said:

Thanks Mr. Prime! Your opinion is well noted...calls for careful consideration what to do next. No opinion so far on paid price...was I conned (f***ed)?

To pay that price for an A- camera condition, stated by the seller to be a collector’s item (without the flaws mentioned), was it stupid or reasonable?

/B

No, you were not conned. It is unfortunate that the frame counter is stuck. It is quite possible that the seller did not notice. It is also possible that a collector (as opposed to a user) wouldn’t care. It is frequently the case that ‘mint’ only describes the cosmetic condition and has nothing to do with the actual working condition-especially for collectors. 
 

The good news is that any competent Leica repair tech can fix it. It is probably an easy thing to repair...but not inexpensive. Nothing associated with Leica is inexpensive. 
 

So...is it a fair price? Depends. For a collector- maybe. I don’t really know I’m a user not a collector. For a user...well, it’s more than I would pay but not much more. I personally would not pay a premium for ‘mint’ condition....cause the film doesn’t know nor care about the cosmetic condition of the camera. 
 

It seems to be causing you some mental anguish. If so, I’d definitely say return it immediately for a full refund.  And before buying another Leica figure out why...what’s your purpose ? Collector? User? Jewelry? 

[Börje Norhager]

3 hours ago, BradS said:

No, you were not conned. It is unfortunate that the frame counter is stuck. It is quite possible that the seller did not notice. It is also possible that a collector (as opposed to a user) wouldn’t care. It is frequently the case that ‘mint’ only describes the cosmetic condition and has nothing to do with the actual working condition-especially for collectors. 
 

The good news is that any competent Leica repair tech can fix it. It is probably an easy thing to repair...but not inexpensive. Nothing associated with Leica is inexpensive. 
 

So...is it a fair price? Depends. For a collector- maybe. I don’t really know I’m a user not a collector. For a user...well, it’s more than I would pay but not much more. I personally would not pay a premium for ‘mint’ condition....cause the film doesn’t know nor care about the cosmetic condition of the camera. 
 

It seems to be causing you some mental anguish. If so, I’d definitely say return it immediately for a full refund.  And before buying another Leica figure out why...what’s your purpose ? Collector? User? Jewelry? 

Thanks a lot BradS for you thoughts and advice - a clear and insightful  “analysis” , definitely valuable for me!

Best regards

BN 

PS. I will let you know what I decide!

[otto.f]

On 7/22/2020 at 9:26 AM, swordmanc said:

viewfinder glass is now more embedded

That’s good! They should never have left the M4 embeddedness

[Joanone]

Not an M-A user, but regarding built quality, last week I had to send to Wetzlar the MP I bought brand new less than a year ago because I've been having light leaks in the last 4 rolls of film I've shot from different manufacturers.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Joanone

[Axelwik]

On 1/13/2021 at 6:48 PM, logan2z said:

Well, the post right above yours is about an M4-P with an issue, so nothing is immune.  

Nothing is immune, but comparing a brand new camera that costs upwards of $5K to something that's 40, 50, or 60 years old doesn't bode well for the new camera. These cameras have to be cleaned and serviced once every several years, but a new one shouldn't have any issues.

[RayD28]

I don't have an M-A but in general, when buying a new camera with defects from a Leica dealer, why is it you can't:

A. Return it to the dealer and have them give you a new one without defect, or

B. Refund your money, or

C. The dealer send it to Leica for expedited repair?  By expedited I mean two week turn-around.

This would require the buyer to thoroughly inspect and use the camera within, say, 14 days of delivery.  A Leica dealer could asses the complaint to determine if it's legitimate and work things out with the customer and be the advocate for the customer if the camera must be returned to Leica.  I believe some window shoppers might buy a camera knowing they'll use it for a couple of weeks and then return it without there being defects but there could be a restocking fee.

Maybe some dealers already do this and I just don't know it.  

 

[otto.f]

On 1/14/2021 at 2:48 AM, logan2z said:

Well, the post right above yours is about an M4-P with an issue, so nothing is immune.  

Except that anything younger than the M4, starting with the -P or the -2, is less sturdy and reliable. 

[BradS]

32 minutes ago, otto.f said:

Except that anything younger than the M4, starting with the -P or the -2, is less sturdy and reliable. 

nonsense. 

[wizard]

vor einer Stunde schrieb otto.f:

Except that anything younger than the M4, starting with the -P or the -2, is less sturdy and reliable. 

That falls into the same category of people saying that the Mercedes W123 series cars (to those who do not remember those cars, they are from the late 70s to early 80s of the last century) were the best cars Daimler Benz ever made. Which simply is not true, they were certainly good cars, but most of them have rusted away in northern climates since long ago (they are still being used in Africa and the Middle East, but "the best cars" to me means they should have survived northern climates as well). And technically speaking, just about any modern car is light-years ahead of a W123 series car, both in terms of safety, fuel economy and driveability.

Edited January 15, 2021 by wizard
correction

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, otto.f said:

Except that anything younger than the M4, starting with the -P or the -2, is less sturdy and reliable. 

Absolutely untrue.