Goldie Posted August 11, 2006 Share #1 Posted August 11, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I was chatting with a long established dealer today; or fishing to the cynical. Basically nothing will be said; anybody within Leica leaking information will be dismissed, this includes executives.(and the name, by the way). September 15th will see a photograph being released for preparation of promotional material and is not intended for the public domain. I think this confirms what I have said elsewhere, the M8 is something quite radical and Leica want to maintain its market lead for as long as possible. This might also suggest a ready supply of stock from the word go(aka Photokina.). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 11, 2006 Posted August 11, 2006 Hi Goldie, Take a look here "M8" silence. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest stnami Posted August 11, 2006 Share #2 Posted August 11, 2006 But the best part about keeping it under wraps it suspends the camera fondlers in a state of high anxiety a real test of their character Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 12, 2006 Share #3 Posted August 12, 2006 Well, unless they are having a joke with us, the name M8 seems assured - as this leaflet seems to confirm. The secrecy is unusual and you seem to be saying that even on September 15th, we may not yet see the camera. I think you're right, there might be something about this camera which is going to surprise even the most fervent of us speculators - all power to them. Earlier this year, Zeiss made a lot of noise about their Nikon fit lenses. In the finish they launched just two and it's all gone rather flat since so I'd be naturally cynical about similar tactics in the future. Here in the UK, Leica are advertising in Amateur Photographer. Black page, red dot, "Emotion returns to the act of photography", "The wait is almost over". I'm going to Photokina on 26th September, flights permitting. Wondering whether I'll be able to reach the stand... 06- 11 2.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ross Posted August 12, 2006 Share #4 Posted August 12, 2006 I'm going to Photokina on 26th September, flights permitting. Wondering whether I'll be able to reach the stand... Hi Mark, I thought of you when I heard about all the airline mess. I know of a couple of press types that are planning to drive from London since Photokina provides the press free parking. Hope that you have at least a P&S to show us the crowd around the stand, if not all the goodies. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 12, 2006 Share #5 Posted August 12, 2006 Yes, I'd planned to take a P&S and a laptop to post near-live pictures here, providing I can find a wireless hot-spot. In the old days, I would have been able to do cabin baggage, but now I would have to check even my car keys because the blipper and key are one... Checking a bag with a laptop, phone, P&S, car keys does not fill me with confidence... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share #6 Posted August 12, 2006 This is really a post script to my initial post. The dealer did also mention the rumour of a wide-angle Tri-Elmar for the M8. Personally I don't think is as improbable as some others think it is. After all Leica have done it once, and the first time is always the steepest learning curve. Also since they do not have to worry about the up-down-up routine to match the frame line selector of the M7, it would be mechanically simpler to build. But then we don't even know if the rangefinder frames are to be mechanically selected, electronics might be taking over! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 12, 2006 Share #7 Posted August 12, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Another Tri-Elmar - or even just a two way lens - is a possibility but I think it's difficult to see how it would cost less than the existing one which is roughly the same price as the 21mm f2.8 alone. One advantage of a lens like that is that it would be a distinctly different tack from Zeiss' Biogon so would not be seen as a direct competitor to it. I'd worry about the size and weight of such a thing too. I've been musing on what else the camera might have to surprise us and I'm not going to make a fool of myself by disclosing my ideas here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted August 12, 2006 Share #8 Posted August 12, 2006 Maybe the surprise is that it will be thoroughly retro, in the sense that the RD1 is. Lots of analog, limited menus. That'd be okay with me. JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted August 12, 2006 Share #9 Posted August 12, 2006 fyi: Leica M-digital and new M-wide lens - FM Forums Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 12, 2006 Share #10 Posted August 12, 2006 fyi: Leica M-digital and new M-wide lens - FM Forums And that new lens would need an accessory finder? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share #11 Posted August 12, 2006 This price for the M8 in Italy of 3800 euros(incl. of VAT @ 20%) frankly amazes me. Leica will be the first company not charging a small fortune for the sensor. Translated into a UK price I get £2480, barely any more than an M7. This really adds to my thoughts about changes to the camera to reduce costs. The R9 shutter I am sure is cheaper than the M7 shutter to make. The other major cost is the rangefinder; I am sure there has been some re-thinks and rationalisation here. Were there not some redundancies at Leica during the financial crisis; this suggests outsourcing as well. If it has the quality in build and imaging, the M8 will sell very well. Perhaps Leica are gearing up to obtain economies of scale, there new trial shops might be all part of the rethink. (Apple?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted August 12, 2006 Share #12 Posted August 12, 2006 I heard about a new tri-elmar to provide wide-angles for the M digital months ago. And the source was someone usually quite well-informed. So I think this might be true. If the price of the M-digital is really below 4000€, this are very good news for us and for Leica. Maybe the new CEO is smart and looking for the future and not waiting for the film to rebound, like the previous one :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ross Posted August 12, 2006 Share #13 Posted August 12, 2006 Hi Goldie, It could be very likely that outsourcing is the name of the M8 game. Shutter by Seiko or Copal, sensor by Kodak, Processor/firmware by Jenoptik, rangefinder optics by Panasonic, body casting out of China (ala the L-1), battery by Panasonic and buttons by Hermes...LOL! Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grober Posted August 12, 2006 Share #14 Posted August 12, 2006 A max aperture of f4 is just too slow. (It's the primary reason I sold my 28-35-50 T-E.) UNLESS the M8 has some sort of anti-shake built into the body... Makes one wonder, doesn't it? -g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 12, 2006 Share #15 Posted August 12, 2006 You may well be right, but I do not understand how Leica can sell a complete camera for much less than the price of a DMR alone and a 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar for less than the cost of the 28-35-50 or a 21mm Elmarit, unless of course they are out-sourcing production from Solms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ross Posted August 12, 2006 Share #16 Posted August 12, 2006 I heard about a new tri-elmar to provide wide-angles for the M digital months ago. And the source was someone usually quite well-informed. So I think this might be true. If the price of the M-digital is really below 4000€, this are very good news for us and for Leica. Maybe the new CEO is smart and looking for the future and not waiting for the film to rebound, like the previous one :-) The lowered price for the body might also mean, those like me who budgeted for the worse will have enough for a new lens, too. I wouldn't be surprised if the design dept doesn't have a catalog of lens designs that can be tweaked for digital and put into production, so we might see more lenses. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted August 12, 2006 Share #17 Posted August 12, 2006 f/4 may be too slow for some usages and I sold my tri-elmar for the same reason but if the M8 has a 400 ISO as good as the DMR, I might go for it. Even more if 800 ISO is good too. And besides, unless Leica comes out with a 21mm/2.0, there will be only 1 f-stop difference with the current 21mm/2.8. It would be a nice travel lens and my dream configuration is now a M8 with this tri-elmar, my 28/2.0 ASPH and the 75/2.0 APO (to be acquired). As long as I'm dreaming, I may as well add a 2nd M8 to avoid changing lens too often :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted August 12, 2006 Share #18 Posted August 12, 2006 1. As to the new lens and the even lower price than previously reported - I'll wait for Leica's own announcement before getting too excited. I don't DIS-believe the reports - I just want to wait and see. Besides which, I prefer a fast single focal length to a slower variable lens, so I'm more interested in a leak on the 15/16mm Elmarit price. Although I just had a horrible thought - maybe this 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar is the ONLY superwide lens Leica is introducing for use with the M8?! No prime Elmarit(s)!? =8^o I guess one new quote-zoom-unquote lens and one new zoom finder would be a cost-effective way of replacing the 21/24/28 fields of view for a cropped sensor quickly and efficiently. Might not bode well for Mark's hoped-for built-in 21 finder, though, since that field of view would be covered (from Leica's point of view) by the zoom finder. (Whoops, Wait a mo. The Tri-Elmar wouldn't even need a new finder - it matches the existing 21/24/28 zoom finder! - the more I think about this, the more likely it seems. No prime superwides (at least right away) After all, Leica has never upgraded the 24 and 21 R lenses, just sidestepped to the 21-35 zoom...Hmmmmmm! F/4 is faster than my 15mm f/4.5 Voigtlander - and if it vignettes less - HMMMMMM!) 2. As to deliveries, I have heard that my area (US mountain states) had 30 pre-orders for the M8 in hand, and that it was expected that all 30 orders would be filled in the first shipment, by mid-October. This is definitely no longer the same company that dragged the DMR introduction out over 9 months. 3. As to out-sourcing: in his July speech to the Leica annual meeting, the CEO specifically mentioned that the various Leica-owned parts factories (e.g. Portugal) would become more independent, and be required to "bid" on parts against outside sources, to encourage efficiency and cost reductions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted August 12, 2006 Author Share #19 Posted August 12, 2006 Hi Bob I wasn't quite thinking that far east! East Germany perhaps. Germany is full of small specialist companies with the right machines and skills which have spare capacity because of the relative sluggishness of the economy. I remember when I bought my Digilux 1 I had to wait an age for a case because the original maker had gone under and Leica were finding a new maker. It's a good time for Leica to get high quality outsourced work. Also if this price is true it will go a long way to pre-empting the question, "Why should I buy an M8 at this price when a full format version is going to be out in a few years time?" i agree about lens designs sitting on a shelf, Erwin Puts mentions numerous such designs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 12, 2006 Share #20 Posted August 12, 2006 I remain sceptical about the prices. Maybe our Italian firends in their excitement have failed to notice the prices are "dealer prices". Who knows, perhaps a little "irrational exuberance"? A FF 16-18-21 f4 lens for less than Leica charge for a 21 f2.8 is unlikely. €2500 barely buys you the 50mm Summilux ASPH so why would that amount suddenly buy you the most complex M lens ever made? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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