35mm Summilux FLE - opinions needed

[Casey Jefferson]

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I've searched and read a lot about this lens (especially Tim Ashley's). I always have a lust for it long before I started shooting with M240 with 35mm cron asph recently. I'm completely happy with the 35mm cron asph and I regard it as a no fuss no mess lens - shoot at any aperture and compose accordingly.

The only two things I wished from FLE is the gentler/smoother rendering and of course one stop more light. But I would love to hear from users on the experiences on using one, particularly on two aspects - will this lens works on any aperture especially regarding focus and recompose? How problematic is the purple fringing e.g. shooting outdoor under overcast sky?

I might be having a great copy of 35mm cron (or a standard copy) - purple fringing is almost non existence except where one expected it to be at worst case scenarios. Focus shifts is non-existance, and seemingly no field curvature in actual shooting.

Not that I have the fund to buy one right now, but seemingly pretty affordable in Tokyo (USD $3300'ish tax free) which I'll be plan and save money to get it the next trip, or when one shows up locally. Speaking about GAS attack...😳

 

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[anickpick]

The Lux is lovely at 1.4.

However, field curvature is significant imo and it changes with aperture setting an distance. Recomposing is trickier than with the Cron.

Stopped down, the Cron (current version) has the smoother rendering.
 

Edited July 16, 2020 by anickpick

[mmx_2]

Difficult to say, for me the FLE replaced a v3 summicron and it is so much better in every way (except weigth). I have not made any direct comparision with the current asph, but you should remember that the FLE is quite a bit heavier 328g vs 258g. It's also longer and bulkier (E46 filters) and blocks the viewfinder a bit. That being said, it's an extremely compact 35 f1.4 and performance is fantastic. The Zeiss ZM 35 f1.4 is "better" wide open but even larger and bulkier. I have never noticed any color cast issues and the FLE is one of my lenses "I will keep until I die". It's simple amazing. The older asph 35 lux had some issues with focus shift. I do believe that the issue is somewhat overrated, but nevertheless, it must be mentioned.

If I had the current asph cron 35 I would maybe not be so quick on replacing it. If you really like low light work and feel a "need" for 1.4 then sure, but I would use my money on buying another FL, like 50 or 28. The main reason for me to get the FLE was simply that I got a very good deal on an somewhat beaten up FLE (but optically perfect).

I would, if possible, recommend that you either rent one, or maybe you can find someone from the forum who can lend you one for a while. I would guess that the cron is sharper at f2 than the fle, but from f2.8 they would be difficult to distinguish.

Joakim

[evikne]

I use my 35 FLE as a complement to my Summicron v4. I use it almost exclusively wide open, because that's where it excels. If I need to stop down, I can almost just as well use the Summicron. And of course I use the Summicron when I want the "classic" look, preferably wide open.

I never worry about the image quality of the FLE. My only dilemma is that the lens gives me too many choices: 😄

• Should I use it with or without the thread protection ring (looks nicer with)
• with or without a UV filter (it feels a little vulnerable without because the front element is very close to the edge), or
• with or without the hood (which is a little long, but gives good protection)?

[IkarusJohn]

I’ve sold this lens twice.

The field curvature Tin Ashley wrote about in his blog was annoying; I found the out of focus treatment busy; and I suspect the field of view was just a bit ... boring.  I prefer the 28 Summilux any day.

[Fedro]

It's a great one lens one camera lens to have, and that is the way I use it.

Also great for film bodies, where you cannot crop (so 28 requires much more discipline) and more light is super useful

On my digital M I prefer the 28 as a field of view, but each has its place

Together with the 50 Lux it is one of the quintessential M lenses for me - I have always had one 

[Casey Jefferson]

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Great replies guys! Lots of points didn't get discussed in the previous threads. 👍🏻👍🏻 Exactly what I wanted to hear more.

I admire the 1.4 rendering of the FLE and I guess that's what people paid the money for, and thus almost shoot it exclusively! However I'm more of a guy who wanted tack sharp especially portraits so critical recompose is important to me, which the cron asph (I have the V1) gave effortlessly, and I vary the aperture and distances with all sorts of subjects (I stop the lens down even for portraits). 35mm will be my only lens setup whenever I travel (I have 16mm on my smartphone) so I'm sort of looking for one lens solution.

So in short, with FLE it's almost an exclusive wide open lens or stop way down, as varying the aperture is tricky (which also Tim Ashley noted in the article).

I'll see if my lust for the 1.4 going to last but I'll definitely still keep the cron. F2 is plenty for me though if I need faster shutter speed I'll probably just get an M10 as I'm now on M240, that should provide more than enough range for my use (I seldom hit ISO 3200 but I can up my min shutter speed to 1/60 with M10).

Much appreciated and love the community! 

[rnl]

incredible lens; see Grand Central Terminal exposure b&w

https://richardnlipow.com/new-york-city-11220

Edited July 17, 2020 by rnl

[Jeff S]

You have a good sample of the Summicron ASPH v.1.  Mine does moderately focus shift at f2.8 - f4, as reported by some others, including Sean Reid in his years old review.  In practice and in print, however, this is not a big issue for me and is easily accommodated. 
 

The floating lens element in the FLE (hence the acronym) primarily addresses close distance focusing (and greater close-up contrast).  Focus shift, an issue reported on the prior Summilux ASPH was secondarily addressed.  One benefit of the current Summilux is that it handles some flare prone situations better than the Summicron ASPH, which can be problematic if one isn’t careful.  The guys at Leica Miami reinforced this observation in their recent Camera Talk video series on Red Dot Forum’s YouTube series episode devoted to 35mm M lenses.

I’ve considered adding an FLE to complement the Summicron, but haven’t so far been compelled. I’ve seen pics here and elsewhere showing field curvature and sometimes busy/funky bokeh, while some swear by it as their all-around favorite and ‘best performing’ M 35mm lens (the Leica Miami guys do).  As always, we each have our own opinions and use cases.  For me, the best way to decide is to demo, but haven’t made it a priority. 
 

Jeff
 

 

[mikeamosau]

For me, this lens is by far my favorite. To answer your questions, focusing and re-composing, even when wide open, has never been an issue. I find it one of the easiest lenses to focus and nail exactly where I wanted it to be. 
 

There is purple fringing. It’s not terrible, but there, and you will need to remove in post. Not a huge deal, but it will show up for sure. 
 

If of interest, I’ve written a small review, with lots of images that I’ve taken with this lens here:

https://photobasecamp.com/review-leica-35mm-summilux-asph-fle/

[lct]

On 7/16/2020 at 11:02 AM, Casey Jefferson said:

The only two things I wished from FLE is the gentler/smoother rendering and of course one stop more light.

You'd get more light but no gentler/smoother rendering with the FLE. Better choose a non asph lens for that.

[evikne]

37 minutes ago, lct said:

You'd get more light but no gentler/smoother rendering with the FLE. Better choose a non asph lens for that.

I guess he means that he will get a more blurred OOF rendering with a Summilux than a Summicron, which of course always is true (if used wide open). But I agree that a non ASPH lens will have a gentler rendering, if that's what he means. 

Edited July 18, 2020 by evikne

[Casey Jefferson]

I appreciate more inputs guys, more food for thought.

@lct @evikne I do see a somewhat smoother rendering perhaps due to the lower contrast wide open and shallower DOF. The bokeh does looked nervy especially mid distance where the background usually falls within transition zone.

I've since studied more pictures taken with the FLE and noticed varying degrees of funky field curvature even at mid apertures, particularly close/mid range, I think that's where the it'll create problems with recomposing. Shooting wide open for close to mid distance seems to mask the curvatures - at least I don't see much of wide open shots (especially of peoples) showing apparent problem with field curvatures. 

One more interesting findings - the FLE does shoot some eye popping B&W pictures, not so with color shots. I'm primarily color shooter and choose my subjects mainly based on colors other than stories. And I love saturated colors and the cron delivers incredibly in this regards. (Attached is one of my favourite street photo)

Maybe I really should give the pre-asph lux a look. And boy those lens still holding their value really well.

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Edited July 18, 2020 by Casey Jefferson

[lct]

I'm not good at comparing different apertures sorry. As far as my lenses are concerned, the 35/1.4 FLE's backgrounds look softer at f/1.4 than those of the 35/2 asph at f/2 due to wider DoF but at the same apertures, the FLE's may look a bit harsher. Both backgrounds look generally sharper than those of non asph lenses like 35/1.4 v2 or 35/2 v4 which in turn have less acutance at the plane of focus. This relative softness of non asph lenses may be useful to hide field curvature or focus shift modern lenses are not alone to suffer from. 

[LocalHero1953]

I no longer have an M, but I retained the Summilux-M 35 FLE to use on my CL. Thus I don't have problems of focus shift or focal plane curvature. On the other hand I have to watch out for somewhat distracting OOF areas with particular backgrounds: branches, reeds, railings in bright sun for example. Overall I like the lens a lot, otherwise I wouldn't have hung onto it. The Summilux-TL 35, though bigger and AF, produces better results all round. Once I get a new bag which can hold the CL + 35TL, my preferred single lens pairing, the 35M FLE is likely to be sold.

[Casey Jefferson]

50 minutes ago, lct said:

I'm not good at comparing different apertures sorry. As far as my lenses are concerned, the 35/1.4 FLE's backgrounds look softer at f/1.4 than those of the 35/2 asph at f/2 due to wider DoF but at the same apertures, the FLE's may look a bit harsher. Both backgrounds look generally sharper than those of non asph lenses like 35/1.4 v2 or 35/2 v4 which in turn have less acutance at the plane of focus. This relative softness of non asph lenses may be useful to hide field curvature or focus shift modern lenses are not alone to suffer from. 

That's more than helpful info from you, really appreciate that 😁 we can't have it all aren't we? More acutance, we lose smooth bokeh, and vice versa. Cron asph perhaps sits in a very nice middle ground.

36 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I no longer have an M, but I retained the Summilux-M 35 FLE to use on my CL. Thus I don't have problems of focus shift or focal plane curvature. On the other hand I have to watch out for somewhat distracting OOF areas with particular backgrounds: branches, reeds, railings in bright sun for example. Overall I like the lens a lot, otherwise I wouldn't have hung onto it. The Summilux-TL 35, though bigger and AF, produces better results all round. Once I get a new bag which can hold the CL + 35TL, my preferred single lens pairing, the 35M FLE is likely to be sold.

Thank you! This is why I ask in forums where people genuinely express their experiences. YouTube reviews just don't say enough of real life experiences. 😊

[lct]

6 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

More acutance, we lose smooth bokeh, and vice versa. Cron asph perhaps sits in a very nice middle ground.

+1 or ZM 35/2.8 if ou don't need f/2 and like contrasty results. I have no experience with the ZM 35/1.4 but would certainly try it if i were not put off by its size.

[Jeff S]

Better to draw your own conclusions, as forum feedback crosses all possible assessments.  Just depends on who chooses to respond to a given post.  I can tell you, for instance, that Andy (adan), a thoughtful contributor here, detests the 35 Summicron ASPH (including its pinkish rendering), and wouldn’t keep one as a gift (or some similar sentiment). For others the Summicron is the best lens ever, and still others will say it’s “boring” (I thought that was a user issue). Same with the FLE.  
 

Good to hear opinions, but often dangerous to accept conclusions without personal experience based on your own shooting habits. And even then there are differences based on possible sample variation.  Keeps the forum active.

Jeff

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[evikne]

I always prefer to make my own experiences rather than ask others for advice. Although trying and failing often becomes expensive. 😬

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by evikne

[Jeff S]

11 minutes ago, evikne said:

I always prefer to make my own experiences rather than ask others for advice. Although trying and failing often becomes expensive. 😬

Dealer demos are often free.  And rentals can be cost effective.  So, too, can buying used with an eye to potential resale price.  Having a friend lend a sample is even better.  I always buy from reputable dealers with return policy. 
 

Jeff