jowatt Posted July 12, 2020 Share #1 Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, I bought a used M240 and when looking through the test shots I noticed a white pixel appearing in the same place in every image. I then took a complete black picture (ISO 200) and then found 6 of such 1x1 pixels spread all over the sensor. 2 of these are grey. Now my question is if this is a common thing with this camera or not? Is it something most people just don't notice? The seller didn't mention them but I also didn't think of asking because I never noticed anything like that on any other camera before. Is it true that Leica can map these out? If so how much will that cost approximately? Do faults like these exist in the sensor from the start, do they happen with age or are they an indicator of certain misuse? I know I can easily edit them out in Capture One but I feel sad since I paid a price expecting the camera to be pristine technically. I didn't plan on selling it anytime soon but I wonder if this will make the resell value drop by a lot. Edited July 12, 2020 by jowatt Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 Hi jowatt, Take a look here How common are white pixels in the sensor?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 12, 2020 Share #2 Posted July 12, 2020 Hot pixels are not normal, as the sensor is mapped at production, but may appear over time. The sensor can be mapped out by Leica, but only if the number of mapped pixels stays within the tolerance span. Otherwise you are looking at an (expensive) sensor replacement. Personally I would return the camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowatt Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted July 12, 2020 vor 26 Minuten schrieb jaapv: Hot pixels are not normal, as the sensor is mapped at production, but may appear over time. The sensor can be mapped out by Leica, but only if the number of mapped pixels stays within the tolerance span. Otherwise you are looking at an (expensive) sensor replacement. Personally I would return the camera. Over how long and how many do usually appear? After all the M240 is quite old now. Is the tolerance span something Leica can determine from the test image or do I need to send in the camera? I sadly don't think I am able to return it since I bought it from a private seller. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 12, 2020 Share #4 Posted July 12, 2020 Normally not that often. You can send a DNG to Leica for advice. The alternative is to create an action in Photoshop to remove them with one click. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good To Be Retired Posted July 12, 2020 Share #5 Posted July 12, 2020 In so much as you are already a bit concerned about the mark on the shutter blade, I'm going suggest you return the camera. Not because there's a huge insurmountable problem, but because it's one of those things that's going to nag at you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 12, 2020 Share #6 Posted July 12, 2020 You bought a used camera. Nothing wrong with that. If you wanted pristine you should have bought brand new. If you bought a pristine camera you still don’t know what is underneath. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowatt Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share #7 Posted July 18, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Am 13.7.2020 um 01:58 schrieb jdlaing: You bought a used camera. Nothing wrong with that. If you wanted pristine you should have bought brand new. If you bought a pristine camera you still don’t know what is underneath. I am just wondering if this is something to be expected as the camera is quite old now or if it's a fault. If you take a black frame with your camera do you see any pixels? Or do most people not pay attention to details like that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted July 18, 2020 Share #8 Posted July 18, 2020 Coincidentally I noticed a couple of stuck pixels on my 240. I went through some photos to see if they’d always been there, and long story short, there’s been some pixels that have stuck and unstuck over the months I've had the camera. From what I understand adobe maps them out upon import (and stuck pixels I can find in C1 aren’t there in the same image in LR) but in C1 you’ll need the single pixel sider on the noise reduction tool. A value of 1 usually does the job Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 18, 2020 Share #9 Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, jowatt said: I am just wondering if this is something to be expected as the camera is quite old now or if it's a fault. If you take a black frame with your camera do you see any pixels? Or do most people not pay attention to details like that? If you send an image to Leica showing the pixels they will advise you. All digital cameras get dead pixels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted July 18, 2020 Share #10 Posted July 18, 2020 Dead, hot or stuck? https://photographylife.com/dead-vs-stuck-vs-hot-pixels Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 21, 2020 Share #11 Posted July 21, 2020 There are stories of people fixing pixels by keeping the camera in the freezer overnight. It may well be a myth - at your own risk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowatt Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share #12 Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) Am 19.7.2020 um 01:24 schrieb Adam Bonn: Dead, hot or stuck? https://photographylife.com/dead-vs-stuck-vs-hot-pixels Since they appear at ISO 200 I guess they are stuck pixels? Am 21.7.2020 um 02:30 schrieb jaapv: There are stories of people fixing pixels by keeping the camera in the freezer overnight. It may well be a myth - at your own risk. That sounds crazy. Also I just noticed that there are 2 times as many and some of them are in color. Could any other M240/262 owners take a black frame (lens cap on, ISO 200, f/16, 1/4000) and tell me if they see any pixels at all at 100%+ magnification? It's quick and easy to do and it would help me a lot! I still don't understand if this is something that can happen or if it's a rare issue and a potential sign of a sensor going broken a la M9 corrosion. Edited July 23, 2020 by jowatt Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 23, 2020 Share #13 Posted July 23, 2020 It may well be crazy - that is the Internet for you. Hot/stuck pixels are something that can/will happen and has no relation to a sensor dying and certainly nothing at all with corrosion, as corrosion is not a sensor defect. The f stop is irrelevant as well. Just send the DNG to Leica for evaluation, they can tell you exactly what to do. Asking on a forum will not lead to any meaningful conclusion. Normally Leica will map them out, should the number exceed the tolerance, they will replace the sensor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowatt Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted July 23, 2020 vor 11 Minuten schrieb jaapv: It may well be crazy - that is the Internet for you. Hot/stuck pixels are something that can/will happen and has no relation to a sensor dying and certainly nothing at all with corrosion, as corrosion is not a sensor defect. The f stop is irrelevant as well. Just send the DNG to Leica for evaluation, they can tell you exactly what to do. Asking on a forum will not lead to any meaningful conclusion. I did. They told me that they haven't seen anything like this which is worrying. My dilemma is that in this current state I can deal with it but my big fear is that it might get much worse. It would just be nice to have an idea of how common that is. Do others have no stuck pixels, a few, or also a lot like me? I meant like corrosion as in getting worse. I worry that it will go from just a few pixels to the sensor being covered in them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 23, 2020 Share #15 Posted July 23, 2020 Did you take the camera flying frequently? Especially transpolar? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted July 23, 2020 Share #16 Posted July 23, 2020 I noticed a stuck pixel on my 240 So I had a look for more and found 2 I swapped to c1 from lr recently and it turns out that Adobe maps then out automatically In c1 try a value of 1 to 5 on the single pixel slider in the noise reduction tool I decided to check all my photos since I got the camera secondhand as I wondered if they had always been there No I also found a stuck pixel that has since unstuck So maybe yours will go away Did leica advise to send the camera in? Don't try the freezer thing... If you do take the sensor out of the camera first! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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