agfa100 Posted August 23, 2007 Share #101 Posted August 23, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Since Oly and Pana seem to be going to share the new Pro Oly body, why not add Leica to the mix for the R-10 plus they already have the adp out to put your R lenses on the 4/3 camera bodies. I just don't see them being able to spend a huge amt on R&D on coming out with there own designed DSLR body and electronic's while they are working overtime to make as many M-8's as they are doing right now. Plus no M lenses, the factory has to be going at 110% just trying to play catch up. I love the R line but it has not been a money maker for them in a long time, if ever. Just my .02 worth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 23, 2007 Posted August 23, 2007 Hi agfa100, Take a look here Is R10 or a brand new Digital-R coming ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mgcd Posted August 23, 2007 Share #102 Posted August 23, 2007 Since Oly and Pana seem to be going to share the new Pro Oly body, why not add Leica to the mix for the R-10 plus they already have the adp out to put your R lenses on the 4/3 camera bodies. I just don't see them being able to spend a huge amt on R&D on coming out with there own designed DSLR body and electronic's while they are working overtime to make as many M-8's as they are doing right now. Plus no M lenses, the factory has to be going at 110% just trying to play catch up. I love the R line but it has not been a money maker for them in a long time, if ever. Just my .02 worth ??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10dreamer Posted August 24, 2007 Share #103 Posted August 24, 2007 He is saying that Leica should piggy back with Olympus and panasonic for the development of their next slr. He believes that Leica doesn't have the resources to develop a new dslr as all of their time is spent making m8's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted August 24, 2007 Share #104 Posted August 24, 2007 He is saying that Leica should piggy back with Olympus and panasonic for the development of their next slr. He believes that Leica doesn't have the resources to develop a new dslr as all of their time is spent making m8's. I know what he meant! I just could not believe what I was reading... Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 24, 2007 Share #105 Posted August 24, 2007 Leica does not need either one of them to build a DSLR . There doing just fine without them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted August 24, 2007 Share #106 Posted August 24, 2007 Leica does not need either one of them to build a DSLR . There doing just fine without them That's pretty funny, isn't it? When Leica started building cameras, where were Panasonic and Olympus? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted August 24, 2007 Share #107 Posted August 24, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) its getting a tough business though isnt it considering the relatively simple M8 had such a disastrous launch and now it seems a successful dSLR requires a feature rich foundation i keep thinking getting over the AF hurdle alone will be a challenge what about LiveView/16bit/frame rate/and noise and the top end FF market just got very crowded with C&N and likely soon SONY shooting for position, this will require a lot to overcome Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted August 24, 2007 Share #108 Posted August 24, 2007 I'm not sure how disastrous the M8 launch was ... but I'm sure that the M8 price only goes up while the Panasonic/Olympus price only goes down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted August 24, 2007 Share #109 Posted August 24, 2007 Leica is perfectly capable of designing a DSLR. It is not a coincidence that they have released the cameras in the order they have, ie. R8, R9, DMR, Digilux 3, M8, R10. It allows them in each case to learn a little more, release a camera, perfect it, and move on. There have been problems, but look at recent releases from Canon and Nikon, and it becomes clear that it is not only Leica with problems. Cameras are simply so complex now that it becomes impossible to anticipate every manufacturing imprecision, every flaw, every workflow. We expect so much from our world in this day and age that we have by necessity all become beta testers for the products we buy. I don't understand the comment at all about Leica being too busy building cameras to design a new one. These are not the same people! The design can proceed regardless of how busy the rest of the company is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 24, 2007 Share #110 Posted August 24, 2007 Let's take this back to basics, what do we want or think others want from a new R body? 1) A new fully mechanical film SLR a la R6? - a niche product in a market otherwise dominated by AF and AE cameras, and ability of film to show full potential of R glass. An SLR M in effect to appeal in the same way that many pros will carry a film MP as a backup camera. 2) A digital platform for the exiting R lenses ? - maybe a collaboration with another manufactuer, or buying the basic design from another co as Samsung and Sony have done? 3) A completely new DSLR and film SLR system with a new range of AF lenses? Expensive to produce & possibly a very limited market given the dominance of Canon/Nikon, and the limitations of digital sensors ability to show the full resolution of Leica glass (from what I've read of the new Nikon's sensor). 4) Additionally - Leica to make (in partnership with another) a limited range of the best R lenses in AF Nikon and Canon mounts to appeal to the pro market. I'm really not sure myself, but these are some of the options that come to mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 24, 2007 Share #111 Posted August 24, 2007 Good thoughts, James. I'd add a 5th option - or maybe 3a. Leica to produce a new AF DSLR and lenses with backward compatibility with the old R-Mount. This takes them forward while not disenfranchising the existing customer base. Ideally there should be two bodies - an entry level, R-E concept that builds the customer base and a pro-spec top of the range model that is able to take the knocks. It also occurs to me that they would be best targeting a market such as sport-optics users in which the name is already well-known, respected and profitable. This would translate into a weathersealed pro-spec SLR with a range of fast telephoto lenses. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phlogiston1 Posted August 24, 2007 Share #112 Posted August 24, 2007 It's easy for me, I want a BASIC Digital R platform for all my R lenses. Simple and you know it makes sense! I know how to focus and take photographs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted August 24, 2007 Share #113 Posted August 24, 2007 All I want is the current R8/R9 design with a lovely full frame sensor in it, with 14 or so megapixels. I'd be happy to attach a current winder or drive to make it go faster. I don't need or want autofocus. Leica could keep things this simple and keep the bulk of its customers completely happy and pick up a bunch of new ones, as it did with the DMR. This would keep development costs down and not introduce any redundancy problems. Does anyone really want Leica to try to be another Canon or Nikon with their SLR system? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krabat Posted August 24, 2007 Share #114 Posted August 24, 2007 Robin and Rick, you took the words out of my mouth! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 24, 2007 Share #115 Posted August 24, 2007 Bill, I agree any proposal should be compatible with the current R mount - I'd take that as a given from Leica in any case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted August 24, 2007 Share #116 Posted August 24, 2007 Let's take this back to basics, what do we want or think others want from a new R body? 1) A new fully mechanical film SLR a la R6? - a niche product in a market otherwise dominated by AF and AE cameras, and ability of film to show full potential of R glass. An SLR M in effect to appeal in the same way that many pros will carry a film MP as a backup camera. 2) A digital platform for the exiting R lenses ? - maybe a collaboration with another manufactuer, or buying the basic design from another co as Samsung and Sony have done? 3) A completely new DSLR and film SLR system with a new range of AF lenses? Expensive to produce & possibly a very limited market given the dominance of Canon/Nikon, and the limitations of digital sensors ability to show the full resolution of Leica glass (from what I've read of the new Nikon's sensor). 4) Additionally - Leica to make (in partnership with another) a limited range of the best R lenses in AF Nikon and Canon mounts to appeal to the pro market. I'm really not sure myself, but these are some of the options that come to mind. You can scratch 4) right away. Neither Nikon nor Canon want the world to know that there are better lenses out there, and promote their own as the best of the best. There would be zero support for such a move. Any other manufacturer is not worth the trouble in this kind of a deal. Besides, Leica, as well as its customers, want a Leica camera. For the same reason, scratch 2b). Also, I don't believe that Leica would ever have made a deal with Panasonic, or that they would ever have released a 4/3 camera and several lenses, except to learn from the experience. What do they learn: digital sensor+camera design, firmware, digital camera ergonomics, autofocus lens design, optical image stabilisation. This will all be applied to either M or R or both, with time. I need a Leica SLR like I need to post my bank account info including PIN on the web, but here is what would make me interested: Two new cameras! The first one, the R7.2, a re-release of the R6.2/R7, just to have a traditional Leica film reflex camera on the market, for those who would want that. The body shape should be slightly modernized, without reaching the portly dimensions or flat forehead of the R8/R9, perhaps adding a small grip-shape. Otherwise it should be left well enough alone, and the price should be kept down as much as possible. It should cost not much more than a second-hand R9, preferably less. It should be compatible with the newest Leica R technology. The second camera would be the new digital, and would have the following features: - Existing R lenses would work as they work now, except that there would be focus confirmation based on contrast. It would not flash, but simply light up, and can be turned off completely. - Autofocus lenses should be supported, as should optical stabilisation; no need to redo the entire line. The support should simply be there. - 1/250s or faster flash sync. TTL everything. - Canon 5D size, smaller than R9. Better grip shape. About 800g. - Should accept two SD cards, and support SDHC. - 105-110% viewfinder! Should show a little more than one gets, with a sharp line to show the actual frame. - SL focusing screen technology. - 14-18MP FF, ISO 100-400 perfect, ISO 50, 800-1600 clean, 3200-6400 for emergencies. - 10MB compressed nonlossy DNG format. Full lens and aperture EXIF info! - 5+ fps, 15-20 photos buffered. Optional manual wind lever for quiet situations! - no millions of menus and buttons, just like the DMR with a few extra controls for AF and OIS. - Direct ISO and EXP access, either through buttons, or through a scroll wheel+button trick. Did I leave anything out? Along with this camera, the kit lens would be an autofocus 35-70/4, and there would be a 70-180/2.8 AF OIS and 300/2.8 AF OIS lens also released, for PJs. The 24 and 35/2 would be redesigned, but manual. The 21-35 would be AF. There would be great new flash technology. None of this is extra-ordinary, and none of this is terribly unrealistic. A couple of items are unlikely (manual wind lever, high ISO, SL screen, perhaps OIS). The rest is still an attractive, basic, but high-quality digital camera. Who posted mock-up R10 shots once, was it fotografr? Could they be posted again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted August 24, 2007 Share #117 Posted August 24, 2007 I don't understand the comment at all about Leica being too busy building cameras to design a new one. These are not the same people! The design can proceed regardless of how busy the rest of the company is. Exactly ... there's another thread in the Customer Forum revealing that most of the camera works are done in the Portugese factory. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 24, 2007 Share #118 Posted August 24, 2007 That's pretty funny, isn't it? When Leica started building cameras, where were Panasonic and Olympus? Most of this stuff is already in place and most of it comes from vendors of some nature and leica builds them with there engineering . They don't need help , they need quality vendors to produce top end product for them. Leica makes LENSES and builds camera's. There is a Huge difference Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyp Posted August 24, 2007 Share #119 Posted August 24, 2007 Yep. what Robin, Rick and Peter said.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angora Posted August 24, 2007 Share #120 Posted August 24, 2007 Let's take this back to basics, what do we want or think others want from a new R body? 1) A new fully mechanical film SLR a la R6? - a niche product in a market otherwise dominated by AF and AE cameras, and ability of film to show full potential of R glass. An SLR M in effect to appeal in the same way that many pros will carry a film MP as a backup camera. 2) A digital platform for the exiting R lenses ? - maybe a collaboration with another manufactuer, or buying the basic design from another co as Samsung and Sony have done? 3) A completely new DSLR and film SLR system with a new range of AF lenses? Expensive to produce & possibly a very limited market given the dominance of Canon/Nikon, and the limitations of digital sensors ability to show the full resolution of Leica glass (from what I've read of the new Nikon's sensor). 4) Additionally - Leica to make (in partnership with another) a limited range of the best R lenses in AF Nikon and Canon mounts to appeal to the pro market. I'm really not sure myself, but these are some of the options that come to mind. 1 + 2 I'd like an R7D. An R7, exactly an R7, equipped with a digital sensor. I guess Leica can hardly compete against an 1Ds MkIII or a D3. But there'd be a market for a small, traditional-oriented camera (ie made of metal, equipped with a shutter dial and an ASA dial)... a kind of M8 actually. Reprising what has been said earlier in this and other topics, a replaceable back would also be an originality on the market. Edit: plus as stabiliser inside the body (if compatible with the replaceable back), a wind lever is a good idea (useful because an "economy mode" could be implemented; like when the lever is winded the camera turns on until the picture is taken, or until x minutes after the picture is taken). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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