Leicaflex sl-2

[mauriziobozzi]

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I just signed up for this forum.
I have always used Nikon and its lenses.
Two years ago, I "inherited" a 135mm Elmarit-R. With the appropriate adapter, I mounted it on the Nikon DF. A frightening detail, it looks like a macro. It's another story, quite different.
I have three R type lenses.
So my question is this: I decided to take a Leicaflex SL-2 (if I find it at the right price ....). Can i mount all "R" type optics? I don't know anything about photographic mechanics.
Thanks in advance for everyone

P.S. translated with the use of the translator. Please excuse me ......

[harryzet]

yes, you can

[ph.]

You need to distinguish between the original SL2 and the no less excellent panasonic avatar currently going by the same name. The new oSL2 can take anything via the correct adapter, but the R lenses marketed from 1978 and onwards will not fit the early leicaflex or the SL and SL" wheras 1 to 3 cam lenses will fit. Optically they should not be despised.

p,

[masjah]

Maurizio, first of all, welcome to the Forum.

Since you are posting on the R Forum, I'm going to assume that you are talking about the original film Leicaflex SL2, not the latest digital mirrorless Leica SL2.

Leica R lenses have a cam system, which evolved over the years, chronologically as follows:

(a) lenses with a single cam, intended for the original Leicaflex (Not the SL and SL2). These are generally described as 1-cam lenses.

(b) a second cam was later added to enable use with the Leicaflex SL and SL2 as well as the original Leicaflex. These are described as 2-cam lenses

(c) a third cam was added to the above to enable the R series (R3 and above) to be used additionally. These are described as 3-cam lenses.

(d) later on lenses were made without the first two cams but with just the third R cam. These lenses can be used with R3 onwards, but not with the the Leicaflex or Leicaflex SL or SL2. These are generally described as "R-cam" or "3rd-cam" lenses. But note that I've known several dealers confuse the terms "3rd-cam" and "3-cam". In your case, this would be important, since 3rd-cam (R-cam only) lenses cannot be used on a Leicaflex SL2. So do check that the dealer has got it right!

(e) finally, for the R8 and R9, an electronic contact strip was added to 3rd-cam (R-cam only) lenses to pass extra information to these later cameras. These are generally known as ROM lenses, and can also be used on R3 to R7. They must not be used on Leicaflex, SL and SL2.

Note that 3-cam and 3rd-cam only (R-cam) lenses can also be used on the R8 and R9 but will not pass the additional information conveyed by the ROM contacts. (This doesn't make too much difference apart from a bit of fine tuning.)

So to answer your original question, you can use (b) and (c) on a film SL2!

If you search the web, you will easily find illustrations to enable you to see what the different cams look like, and thereby classify your own lenses.

 

If though you are talking about the latest digital mirrorless SL2, you would need an R to L adapter to use R lenses. The instruction manual says that you can use types (c) (d) and (e) above on the adapter, but not (a) and (b).

Hope this is clear - it's a bit of a long story, and apologies if I'm telling you things you already know.

 

[mauriziobozzi]

First of all, I have to thank those who answered my question. Dear.
Special thanks to masjah, truly exhaustive!
I want the fully mechanical Leicaflex sl2 and therefore the construction date is 1974-76
I don't have the Leicaflex sl2 yet .... I'm undecided between a chrome and a black one. But next week I'll buy it.
Why did I make this choice? It's simple: I want a mechanical camera, without motor, without electrical parts and technology I throw it in the trash. I thought about it ..... already a choice of this type (switch from sensor to film) is a lot. Then, a mechanical camera .... But, this is not the right section: Leica & General Discussions, yes?
I have three lenses:
1) 50mm summicron "R" type 11216, with its box, and says "For leica r3 only"
2) 60mm macro-elmarit "R" Serial no. 2556xxx
3) 135 elmarit canada No. 2730xxx, with the adapter for Nikon
For now, that's all.
So: can I mount the lenses without fear on leicafex sl2?

Thank you so much !!

 

[masjah]

Maurizio, it's difficult to say definitely without looking at the cams on your lenses. I would say that, since it says "For Leica R3 only" on its box, your 50 Summicron would be a 3rd cam only lens, what I called type (d) so could not be used on a Leicaflex SL2 (assuming that it's the correct box for the lens!).

Going from the serial number, I suspect your 60/2.8 macro is a 2-cam lens, what I called type (b), which would be OK with a Leicaflex SL2.

I can't be sure either about the 135, but I suspect it's 3 cam, what I called type (c), but I can't be sure.

Get all of your lenses out, and have a look at the back of each of them. On the 50/2 you will see a black step, which is the R-cam. (Make sure you are looking at a step, and not the aperture stop down lever.) Now have a look at your 60/2.8. You should see what looks like two shiny curved ramps. These are the first and second cams.

You should now know what the three cams look like. 

If your lenses have two shiny curved ramps (not one or none) then they can be used on a Leicaflex SL2.

 

 

 

 

[ph.]

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Using film is quite rerwarding, it can lead to astonishingly bright projected colour dias.

with the SLs one needs to get proper batteries, since the old mercury types are no longer in sale. the Japanese shop, kanto camera, stocks suitable adapters for replacements. The plastic lens-change-buttons on the SLis rumoured to have a habit of breaking. My o,lder SL has a metal variety which is very solid, but in exchange its light meter is less sensitive than the SL2, but perfectly adequate for my purposes no sign of the dreaded prism silvering peeling.

As to adapters for the L-mount, the Leitz successors mayhave introduced the same mechanical block on their R-Ladapters that they made fro the R mounts; rerputedly something that can be filed away, but I have never been able to find out where to file. Cheapo adapters, however are not finicky, I have several Canon and MFT adapters for R lenses and have not found any which will not work both on my old and of my recent ROM lenses, so I expect the same goes for L adapters.

p.

[mauriziobozzi]

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

I have to familiarize myself with the format of the images ...... Anyway: this is the 50mm summicron. If I understand correctly, it is not suitable for mounting on the Leicaflex sl2, because it has an extra cam.
Instead, the 60mm macro lens only has 2 cameras.
I have to thank, heartily, masjah who went out of his way to solve my question. But, everyone was very kind.
So, I have to find 1-cam or 2-cam lenses, to feel comfortable on the Leicafelx sl2.
  Thanks !!!

 

[gbealnz]

Not sure I could understand your picture so I did a quick search. There are quite a few articles on the internet about the cam descriptions.

Here is but one.

https://www.keh.com/blog/leica-r-lenses-understanding-cams/

Gary

[masjah]

Maurizio, yes, for the SL2, you need 2-cam or 3-cam lenses. Your 50 lens is indeed not suitable because it is missing the first and second cam. Having the third cam is not a problem so long as the first and second cams are also there.

[adan]

Check this page, especially the images. For the Leicaflex SL2, you need lenses that look like the illustrations with 1+2, or 1+2+3.

1+2+3 is the most compatable with any Leica SLR of any type (and thus the most valuable) but 1+2 will work on the Leicaflex SL2.

https://www.keh.com/blog/leica-r-lenses-understanding-cams/

The 50 you show is too late a lens to work on the SL2 - only has 1 cam. It will only function on the "R" cameras R3 and later.

Your 60 macro was made in 1973 and your 135 was made in 1975. It is virtually certain that both will work on a Leicaflex SL2 camera. But check the cams against the pictures to be sure.

[wlaidlaw]

May I just add that one and two cam lenses are best not used on the R8 and R9, as there is a risk that they could damage the ROM electrical contacts. They will often mount but wisest not to try, given that the ROM contacts cannot now be repaired. 

Wilson 

[masjah]

1 hour ago, wlaidlaw said:

May I just add that one and two cam lenses are best not used on the R8 and R9, as there is a risk that they could damage the ROM electrical contacts. They will often mount but wisest not to try, given that the ROM contacts cannot now be repaired. 

Wilson 

Wilson, agreed, and the same goes for the R to L adapter, which has contacts to talk to ROM R lenses (as is stated in the R to L instruction booklet). In any case, without the 3rd R-cam, you couldn't meter properly. According to Leica instructions though, it's ok to use full 3-cam lenses on the R8/R9 despite the first two cams also being there. I suspect that on the later 3-cam lenses, the first two cams must be a bit slimmer than on the earlier one and two cam designs.

Edited May 26, 2020 by masjah

[harryzet]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb mauriziobozzi:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

I have to familiarize myself with the format of the images ...... Anyway: this is the 50mm summicron. If I understand correctly, it is not suitable for mounting on the Leicaflex sl2, because it has an extra cam.
Instead, the 60mm macro lens only has 2 cameras.
I have to thank, heartily, masjah who went out of his way to solve my question. But, everyone was very kind.
So, I have to find 1-cam or 2-cam lenses, to feel comfortable on the Leicafelx sl2.
  Thanks !!!

 

you need at least a 2-cam lens. one tells the camera the aperture in the finder, the other the exposuremeter. one cam lens was for the first leicaflex, the sl and sl2 used two cams. your sl-2 can also use 3 cam lenses without any difficulties, the 3rd cam is only used in r-leicas from r3 upwards

 

[wlaidlaw]

My own POV is that it is always more sensible to buy a 3 cam lens than a 2 even for an SL or SL2, as this gives maximum flexibility if you buy an R camera at a later date. There is not a great deal of difference between the two versions on price. With 2 cam lenses on the R3 to R7, I think I am correct that you have to use stop down metering. R cameras are so cheap that sometimes folks are giving them away free with an R  lens. This happened to me where a free R4 with motor winder came with my 500 MR Telyt lens. It had a couple of minor faults easily rectified by myself. 

Wilson

[AZN]

Controversial suggestion coming up…

You may be better off with a Leica R6 or R6.2.  Either work perfectly well without batteries and are only @ 30 years old.  Whereas the SL-2 is approaching 50 years old.

Furthermore, you don't have to worry about R-cams so much as the R6/.2 works with all the later lenses (2cam/3cam/R-only/ROM)

I owned a Chrome R6.2 for roughly 10 years before (stupidly) selling it.  When I got back into film a few years ago I got a barely used anthracite R9 instead.  Yes, completely battery dependant, but otherwise a beautiful camera to use + much cheaper than an equivalent condition R6.2 =/

FWIW, YMMV etc.

Edited May 26, 2020 by AZN

[wlaidlaw]

However (and this comes from someone who had a terrible experience with a new old stock SL2 at the end of the seventies, when multiple visits to Leica UK failed to sort it out), there is something special about the Leicaflex cameras. I don't think any other camera except the even heavier "Bulls-eye" Contarex, gives such a feeling of carved from solid as the SL2. It really does feel like a reflex version of the M4 I have owned since new in 1967. I accept that the R cameras are more functional (I have an R4-MOT, R8 and R9, all with motor-winders) but there is something specially tactile about my SL2, a different one from the earlier horror, which in the end, the dealer took back. 

Wilson

[masjah]

36 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

However (and this comes from someone who had a terrible experience with a new old stock SL2 at the end of the seventies, when multiple visits to Leica UK failed to sort it out), there is something special about the Leicaflex cameras. I don't think any other camera except the even heavier "Bulls-eye" Contarex, gives such a feeling of carved from solid as the SL2. It really does feel like a reflex version of the M4 I have owned since new in 1967. I accept that the R cameras are more functional (I have an R4-MOT, R8 and R9, all with motor-winders) but there is something specially tactile about my SL2, a different one from the earlier horror, which in the end, the dealer took back. 

Wilson

Wilson, I have a very good friend who has an SL2, and that feeling of solidity, and the comparison with that earlier generation of film M cameras, was the identical reaction induced in both of us. The other camera which has very recently induced in me that same feeling of carved from solid solidity is the new digital SL2. This is probably because its body is indeed literally carved from solid.

[TomB_tx]

I bought my M4 in 1968, then traded all my Canon gear for a Leicaflex SL with 50 & 135 lenses in 1969.After Pentax, Nikon & Canon the SL indeed felt as solid as the M4. These two cameras were my main kit for decades - adding an M6 in 1985.

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[andrew01]

The leicaflexes are amazing cameras, and all Leica enthusiasts should experience one in my opinion.  I have an SL and also an R8.  If I could only keep one of the two, I would choose the SL.  It has a similar mechanical precision feeling as the M3, unlike any other 35mm SLR I have tried.  

My advice is as follows:

- buy from a reputable Leica dealer who can confirm that everything is working.  I have had great experience with Meister camera in Germany.

- Consider an SL instead of SL2 because it is 1/4 the price.  SL2 has some reliability concerns with the 1/2000 speed, which can be hard to pick up without film testing.  Main problem with the SL is a dead meter if the camera has not been used for a long time.  If you get one that is currently working you should be fine.

- I use a MR-9 battery adapter to get around the 1.3v battery voltage requirement.  This fits a smaller 1.5v silver oxide and has an in built circuit to reduce the voltage to the correct rating (very important for Cds meters).