Geo Tagging Enabled

[Jared]

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For those who are interested, Geo Tagging for the SL2 has been enabled via the latest release of Fotos.  Here is how it works:

1) Make sure Bluetooth is enabled in your SL2

2) Turn on Fotos in your iPhone 

3) Connect to your SL2 in Fotos

4) Press the “Remote” button in Fotos.  The satellite icon should appear on your top plate and in your EVF.  Pictures you take will now be tagged with GPS info, regardless of whether the picture is taken through Fotos or with the shutter release on the camera.

Note that the connection between Fotos and the camera over WiFi must remain active for the geo tagging to work.  The satellite data remains active for some seconds after you disconnect, but not minutes.

Not the most elegant solution Inhave seen, but it does appear to work, and at least you can use the camera to release the shutter, not just Fotos.  Wish it just required a low power Bluetooth connection and active Fotos connection.

 

[meerec]

The clunkiest and most useless or least useable implementation of tagging I’ve seen in modern cameras. I can imagine using it occasionally for landscape shooting when I have all the time in the world, otherwise it’s just inconvenient and senseless. Leica failed here by removing the GPS unit from SL2 while Hasselblad added the same to its X1D II. Disappointing on Leica part. 

[Jared]

4 hours ago, meerec said:

The clunkiest and most useless or least useable implementation of tagging I’ve seen in modern cameras. I can imagine using it occasionally for landscape shooting when I have all the time in the world, otherwise it’s just inconvenient and senseless. Leica failed here by removing the GPS unit from SL2 while Hasselblad added the same to its X1D II. Disappointing on Leica part. 

The first implementation on the Q2 was even worse—requiring the shutter to be released within Fotos.  Yes, it’s clunky enough that I can’t imagine actually using it for anything.  Easier to just whip out my iPhone and take a pic with it, then transfer the geo tag into the Leica images after the fact in software.  That would, literally, be easier.

[LocalHero1953]

Don't mock - what else could Leica have been doing for the last two months?

[sebas_]

GPS over Bluetooth has been enabled with the last app update. You have to press the three dots in the app next to the camera and then choose GPS always (beta). In the iPhone Setting you have Switch the Location data permission to always as well. 
so far it’s working on my SL2

Edited May 16, 2020 by sebas_

[scott kirkpatrick]

There are all sorts of problematic states that you can get into with two systems (phone plus camera) that each think they know what the other might be doing.  Panasonic deals with this in their Lumix Synch by forcing you to choose which one will be able to take pictures when they communicate.  If you said the phone is in charge and then touch a camera control in the Lumix world, you are asked to disconnect.  Fewer bugs that way, but less function.  I don't have a Q2, but Leica may have been tempted to go down that path.  Leica decided to support all modern products, not just the SLor just the live view systems, so they have a real challenge ahead.  So far they are letting both partners stay active -- you can shoot from remote or from the camera, but trying changing control settings from the camera end while Fotos is active and funny stuff can happen.  I keep getting into a hung state where Bluetooth has gotten turned off and the camera can't seem to turn it back on. Battery out, then reset fixes this but maybe there is a faster method.

I expect the M series will work somewhat differently from the L-mount cameras.  Don't know what to expect from the X and V's. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[hofo100]

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This app .... tried it this morning on SL2 (with the settings all as described above) - for 6 out of 8 photos GPS data are shown after import in LR, however, starting with #7 no information, although the App was still on... More disgusting, this happened thru the energy intensive WIFI, not with bluetooth. 

[sebas_]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb hofo100:

This app .... tried it this morning on SL2 (with the settings all as described above) - for 6 out of 8 photos GPS data are shown after import in LR, however, starting with #7 no information, although the App was still on... More disgusting, this happened thru the energy intensive WIFI, not with bluetooth. 

Hello

That is strange. I have just tried it with my SL2. Camera was off and App not active in the front screen. Camera connects to bluetooth instantly and some seconds later the GPS icon showed up. I have not connected the camera to the app to start WIFI. 

Just make sure that the GPS settings in the app's submenu is set to the "Always" BETA mode. 

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[Photoworks]

I am quite happy with the implementation, I went to shoot yesterday for few hours.

Not every image was Geotagged but most of it.

The challenge was shooting with SL2 and Q2 at the same time. I would not always pick up the signal when switching camera.

[meerec]

I admit it works better than before. Slightly better. Oh well, this function is still in ‘beta’. 

Here are my observations after testing it. 

After turning SL2 on, need to make sure iPhone is awake from sleep too. Takes then a few seconds to reconnect and SL2 then displays the GPS symbol on the top display. However, the moment the SL2 goes to sleep to conserve power, and I wake it up again, the same thing happens — takes a few to 15sec for SL2 to catch up to iPhone provided that you tap on the iPhone screen to wake it up. The iPhone must be awake. The good thing is the WiFi connection isn’t needed anymore, and you don’t need to activate the Fotos app each time, or anything like it. Not really a workable solution at the moment, very experimental and finicky. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Yes, I got it to show the GPS icon and put a location in SL2's file without making a wifi connection, too.  Now to see if it is the right location.  This was using the iOS version and an iPad Pro (large one).  

Also the iOS version handles camera settings properly.  It accepted the basic settings that were on the camera (but changed my AF from spot to field).  When I disconnected, the camera was in the state that I had moved it into.  I did have to reset profile to my previous profile as Fotos puts profile into default.  But Fotos did not change the letter I apply to each fie so that I will know which camera is being used.  Previous versions went back to L100... numbering.  Hurray!

Warning, I don't think the Android version gets all of this right.  They aren't the same.  Nope.  The Android version sets the SL2 into P mode and the AF in iAF (faces and bodies).  If you change things in Remote to something that you want to use, the changes stick.  Also, Fotos Remote doesn't change your exposure comp setting or the first letter of the file names.  So that's a partial improvement for the Android version.

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[Jared]

10 hours ago, sebas_ said:

GPS over Bluetooth has been enabled with the last app update. You have to press the three dots in the app next to the camera and then choose GPS always (beta). In the iPhone Setting you have Switch the Location data permission to always as well. 
so far it’s working on my SL2

I stand corrected!  Thanks for pointing this out. I will play with it.  Sounds like what I was looking for originally.

[meerec]

The GPS icon shows up in the lower right corner of the viewfinder when active 🙀

[scott kirkpatrick]

BTW, you can put two cards in your SL2 now and still use Fotos.  It brings up an error message saying that 2 chips are not supported, but it works and you can see the files on chip #1.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Also, the location that Fotos saves is only accurate to a few ten-thousandths of a degree of latitude or longitude.  That sounds pretty good, but most phones can do about one tenth of that.  0.0001 degree is 11 meters in latitude or longitude at the equator.  My phones are typically good to about  one meter when outdoors.  You can check this on any map program by blowing things up to show buildings, curbs, etc.  When I did this experiment with my S1R it generally reflected the phone's accuracy.  So far my location errors are random and up to 20 m.  I'll try this experiment again with a new Android phone and see if the data is any more accurate.

EDIT:  I just looked in the DNG file to see how the Geo information is stored.  It is written in degrees, and minutes, with an accuracy of .01 minute.  That's 1/6000 of a degree, so instead of 11 m accuracy, this means that the smallest difference that can be recorded is about 18 meters.  C'mon, Leica, you can do better than that!  I think most phones can deliver .001 minute accuracy.  And I have found my Panasonic S1R saves its data good to 2-3 meters accuracy.

EDIT2:  I made a mistake, see below a few posts down.

Edited May 17, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

If you are having trouble connecting and delete the camera and reinstall it again in Fotos (a common practice), you will have to make the connection complete over wifi to get the camera listed in Fotos.  Then and only then, you can set location logging to be always on (beta).  And after that the camera can wake up, see the phone, show you the gps icon and start logging locations for each picture, using only Bluetooth.

Edited May 17, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

On 5/16/2020 at 10:58 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

Don't mock - what else could Leica have been doing for the last two months?

How about SL2 firmware?  More robust connection with Fotos is probably going to require fixing things on both camera and app.  We're still waiting for multishot high resolution.  

How about moving ahead on the next three wide angle SL Summicrons?  But I agree that they were more likely to keep firmware efforts moving rather than mechanical and optical stuff that needs engineers in a lab.

We sent some of our students home with their lab equipment to keep projects in robotics, 3D printing moving.  The ones with small children weren't too appreciative.

Edited May 17, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[msh58]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb scott kirkpatrick:

Also, the location that Fotos saves is only accurate to a few ten-thousandths of a degree of latitude or longitude.  That sounds pretty good, but most phones can do about one tenth of that.  0.0001 degree is 11 meters in latitude or longitude at the equator.  My phones are typically good to about  one meter when outdoors.  You can check this on any map program by blowing things up to show buildings, curbs, etc.  When I did this experiment with my S1R it generally reflected the phone's accuracy.  So far my location errors are random and up to 20 m.  I'll try this experiment again with a new Android phone and see if the data is any more accurate.

EDIT:  I just looked in the DNG file to see how the Geo information is stored.  It is written in degrees, and minutes, with an accuracy of .01 minute.  That's 1/6000 of a degree, so instead of 11 m accuracy, this means that the smallest difference that can be recorded is about 18 meters.  C'mon, Leica, you can do better than that!  I think most phones can deliver .001 minute accuracy.  And I have found my Panasonic S1R saves its data good to 2-3 meters accuracy.

Is this correct? At least for me Lightroom and Mac Preview shows the Leica SL GPS locations at accuracy of 0.01 arc seconds, which is 1/360000 of a degree and corresponds to about 0.3 m on the equator. This, of course, does not directly tell anything about the accuracy of the GPS of the camera. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

On 5/17/2020 at 9:31 PM, msh58 said:

Is this correct? At least for me Lightroom and Mac Preview shows the Leica SL GPS locations at accuracy of 0.01 arc seconds, which is 1/360000 of a degree and corresponds to about 0.3 m on the equator. This, of course, does not directly tell anything about the accuracy of the GPS of the camera. 

I've tried two things so far.  I looked at the test of the EXIF gps information in the DNG files and it seems to be degrees, minutes, according to the "info" page in Capture One, which reports the accuracy of the minutes to four decimal places.  Fotos displays the locations in terms of degrees with a precision of one ten-thousandth of a degree.  Adobe's DNG-Validate program reports out the locations in degrees, minutes and seconds, showing the last number to an accuracy of 0.01.  I first thought those were minutes of arc.   That's not very good.  Phones can do better,.

Then I went for a short walk and plotted several pictures on Google maps.  The first few positions were awful.  The last one was pretty good.  I'll do that some more.  I did the same experiment with an S1R a few months back, and it did much better as I recall.

But, hey, you are right and I read them wrong. Here are some GPS data from an SL2 DNG file:  (as extracted by Adobe dng_validate)

GPSVersionID: 2.3.0.0

GPSLatitudeRef: "N"

GPSLatitude: 31.0000 46.0000 20.4700

GPSLongitudeRef: "E"

GPSLongitude: 35.0000 12.0000 4.9000

So I'll agree with your potential accuracy of 0.3 m if the signal is that accurate.  Maybe it takes some time being active to get that kind of precision.  I know surveyors' GPSes average over minutes to get better than a cm precision (which we don't need).

A curious thing.  Fotos prints out the location to 0.0001 degree, which is cruder.  And it still seems to jump about.  Maybe part of the problem is getting your phone or iPad to do its thing right.

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick
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[msh58]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb scott kirkpatrick:

I've tried two things so far.  I looked at the test of the EXIF gps information in the DNG files and it seems to be degrees, minutes and the accuracy of the minutes is two decimal digits.  That's not very good.  Phones can do better, so I'd like leica to use more of the accuracy available.

Then I went for a short walk and plotted several pictures on Google maps.  The first few positions were awful.  The last one was pretty good.  I'll do that some more.  I did the same experiment with an S1R a few months back, and it did much better as I recall.

But, hey, you are right and I read them wrong. Here are some GPS data from an SL2 DNG file:

GPSVersionID: 2.3.0.0

GPSLatitudeRef: "N"

GPSLatitude: 31.0000 46.0000 20.4700

GPSLongitudeRef: "E"

GPSLongitude: 35.0000 12.0000 4.9000

So I'll agree with your potential accuracy of 0.3 m if the signal is that accurate.  Maybe it takes some time being active to get that kind of precision.  I know surveyors' GPSes average over minutes to get better than a cm precision (which we don't need).

A curious thing.  Fotos prints out the location to 0.0001 degree, which is cruder.  And it still seems to jump about.  Maybe part of the problem is getting your phone or iPad to do its thing right.

 

I did a quick retrospective study of the locations stored in the DNG files by comparing the result to the associated photograph. The pictures were taken in both city and rural areas here in Massachusetts and in Finland. It seems that depending of the situation the SL GPS accuracy is anywhere between 1 to 10 m. 

The accuracy of S Typ 006 seemed to be similar.

I then went on to browse some photos taken with an iPhone 6s. There was no apparent improvement in accuracy. 

Based on these limited data it still maintain my position that  inclusion of a built-in GPS in the SL2 would have been a sound idea.  Perhaps the software contraption could have been offered as an option.