SL2 How can this be considered professional?

[darrel Crilley]

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That experience is truly dismaying. Difficult to understand why the grip makes a difference unless it has extra power within its battery. Truly ludicrous you have had to buy a 900 dollar grip to obtain a very basic function in any modern camera let alone a proclaimed pro- level machine.

The explanation you have received might make sense when there is under 10% left on the battery but this happens at 90% charge. 

 

 

[bsmith]

I get it on both SL2's and with all 8 batteries. I even get it with the acc. handgrip with 2 batteries !!! Even when one is full and the other half.  It has to be firmware issues 

[darrel Crilley]

Do you get the problem even selecting the electronic shutter ?  I do not enjoy that function but yesterday it provided a workaround which allowed things to continue.  Tonight the gremlins have had a night off and above 90% on the battery we have been afforded the elemental pleasure of the mechanical shutter shooting a few burst.  It has come to feel like an unexpected treat when it does operate !

Given that you have it on two camera bodies it is not bad luck.  It is plainly a firmware flaw which Leica need to fix.  If others are not seeing it that may just be good luck or not using it day in-day out to try burst shooting.  As per original post, I had no issues at all for the first three months and the error message has started in month four.  

[Jim B]

12 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I read through this whole thread and still don't know what the OP is doing when this error message comes on.  Is it only during burst shooting?  Earlier I thought the problem was somewhere in video practices, but I just shot half a GB of 4K video on my SL2 and nothing interesting happened.

I am the OP.  What do you mean you don’t understand what I am doing. I’m just trying to use the camera in high/medium speed burst mode, and have only just been able to investigate video recording. Just trying various video modes, and settings for a short while 5-10 minutes, and then that’s it won’t record.

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Thank you.  You didn't identify either use in your first post.

[hillavoider]

Yeah it’s not a good look for a 10k AUD camera 

worry is that they used the wrong battery, how is it fixed with just firmware if the battery from the old SL is simply not up to it 

Edited April 25, 2020 by hillavoider

[scott kirkpatrick]

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I still can't reproduce this, using my SL2 and a 35 SL Summicron.  I shot around 600 frames, at both medium speed continuous burst and high speed burst, using AFs, AFc, and iAS, without problems.  I started with a full battery, ended with at least one bar down.  Frequent buffer fills.  No error message.  If there is an extra load involved, perhaps the heavier focus elements in the zooms as compared to the primes is part of it.  But I don't think the battery is responsible.  If only some cameras have this error appearing, when comparably equipped, that would seem worth getting checked out.

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I still can't reproduce this, using my SL2 and a 35 SL Summicron.  I shot around 600 frames, at both medium speed continuous burst and high speed burst, using AFs, AFc, and iAS, without problems.  I started with a full battery, ended with at least one bar down.  Frequent buffer fills.  No error message.  If there is an extra load involved, perhaps the heavier focus elements in the zooms as compared to the primes is part of it.  But I don't think the battery is responsible.  If only some cameras have this error appearing, when comparably equipped, that would seem worth getting checked out.

or they just fix it in firmware, they are enough people having the problem.

[hillavoider]

S1R uses a much better battery and Leica rebadged it with a much nicer body and an older battery, I really really hope they did not stuff that up, upgrading the battery is a big deal

[bsmith]

What happens is if you use the SL2 sporadically it doesn't always happen, but when you shoot high speed burst that constantly (like a concert )  writes  to the SMALL!!! buffer,  it seems trick the camera's software to generate the low battery message.  If you take that battery out of the camera and put it into another SL  ( even immediately)  the battery shows more than sufficient power left. Often the batteries have 1/2 or more power left when the 4k/high speed messages start to appear. It's definitely a firmware issue. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Things are more likely to get fixed if they can be reproduced.  I spent five minutes firing bursts and took about 500 exposures.  There were pauses of a few seconds as I moved around, and the buffer filled frequently (about 15-18 shots), slowing things down.  With shat sort of time pattern do you see the SL2 overload and claim it is a battery problem.  Leica's error messages are notorious for pointing at the wrong thing.  What do you suspect might really not be working right?

To make this a proper, loggable bug, you might try to fire a fixed number of shots at a fixed interval -- maybe enough in each burst to fill the buffer and slow down, maybe just less than that.  Then show that the problem happens each time you do that.

 

[darrel Crilley]

Is there a difference between the electronic shutter and the mechanical shutter , at the same shutter speed, in how images are written onto the card via the buffer ?  The electronic only shutter option works once it is selected as the only shutter option in the menu.  It works on a half battery, it works on a 90% battery, it is even working on a 30 % battery.  The buffer has no problem filling up and refreshing on the ES.  The failure here is of the normal hybrid setting or mechanical only settings for anything other than single image or ( sometimes) low speed ( ie not really a relevant burst at all in the context of trying to capture a sport).  I am not even sure that what I am doing is making any real demands on the buffer to trigger a misleading error message.

By way of example, all that I am currently trying to shoot are stills of mountain biking action at about 1/1000th of a second (typically) and to do so using JPEGS, never DNG files.  In each burst I usually press the shutter long enough to capture between 5 and 9 shots because the focus, on each occasion, is just upon one small section of the trail where the rider has to negotiate an obstacle.  Minutes then elapse before the next rider reaches the same spot during which the camera is asked to do nothing. This is pretty elementary stuff.  My XT 2 did it for three years without a hiccup.  My XT3 does it easily.  This camera did it easily for 3 months. It did it in very cold temperatures through the winter.  Now, it hardly ever does it.  Experience these last few weeks has taught me the best chance I have is when the battery is full.  

So, today, for the first 10% of the life of the battery, we had a mechanical burst option.  I could shoot test bursts in my study at home in the morning.  This afternoon in the forest, with the battery at somewhere in the region of 80-90% we got one burst sequence of 5 JPEGS before the error then intervened and refused to go away.  Switch to ES only and I could shoot for a further hour recording about another 60 shots via some 10-12 burst sequences.  Further, for present purposes I have been using the little Sigma 45mm lens which I have presumed does not need quite as much energy as the SL 24-90 given that the AF motors are not having to move quite such large elements back and forth.  For completeness, I will add that the same problem arises with an M 35 Summicron attached, pre-focused to the zone where the rider will arrive.

The nature of this persistent problem is easily verified.  A simple piece of iPhone footage documenting the settings adopted and the stubborn refusal of the system to shoot mechanical shutter bursts could be prepared by all that suffer this misfortune.  My retailer - Leica Manchester - already has images of the camera failing to oblige on a 90% battery charge with the Menu page displaying the settings.

Using the ES is not an experience I crave.  It is far preferable to have a much more tactile sense of how many shots you have reeled off vis-a-vis the snippet of action you are trying to capture.  In any event, the mechanical shutter and the software/power source interface which supports it in burst mode should still be fit for elementary tasks such as that outlined above.

Four weeks ago I would have shared Scott's inability to reproduce this error.  I shot a lot of skiing action over the winter with the SL 2 and the longer duo of zooms with great results and no trouble. I have looked at my shooting practices to see if I have done anything different or altered a setting but ,despite scratching my head, I have come up with nothing.

There is an apparent temporary workaround - the ES - but it really is up to Leica to figure this out.  

 

[Jim B]

15 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I still can't reproduce this, using my SL2 and a 35 SL Summicron.  I shot around 600 frames, at both medium speed continuous burst and high speed burst, using AFs, AFc, and iAS, without problems.  I started with a full battery, ended with at least one bar down.  Frequent buffer fills.  No error message.  If there is an extra load involved, perhaps the heavier focus elements in the zooms as compared to the primes is part of it.  But I don't think the battery is responsible.  If only some cameras have this error appearing, when comparably equipped, that would seem worth getting checked out.

Hi Scott, well I am happy, and jealous your camera works!  When I get a new camera, for me to be able to use it for work, I thoroughly practice with it so that I know how the focus works, the tracking etc. So in this situation, if the battery is not fresh off the charger, it doesn’t work correctly. You wouldn’t be able to shoot an event and then switch into, high speed burst or 4k recording.

Even in the studio, if you use the power to compose your shot and the expect it to burst for a splash effect, or ink cloud ..... will not perform.

I was able to ask for a new battery, and going to try that but don’t have much hope.

What I am planning to do is beg for a copy of the firmware and see if I can reinstall it. Maybe some of us got corrupt files....and if your camera works ok then there is hope that the issues can be resolved. 
 

Thank you for a your input.

[bsmith]

If its better or not, the electronic shutter is NOT a viable option because it's a electronic shutter!  No one bought that camera to only use an electronic shutter. 

[darrel Crilley]

Agreed and certainly not for shooting sports. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

It's not your battery.  And I seriously doubt that a slight misload in your firmware would produce such a subtle error.  So it's your copy of this camera that has a sensor somewhere that is being too cautious.   Can you borrow another to see if that's it?  Or get a replacement?

[Jared]

Perhaps there is a temperature component to the issue?  That would explain why some experience the issue while others (like me so far) don’t.  And I have used my camera in the exact same scenario of shooting mountain bike races while waiting in a fixed location for riders to come be and shoot a burst of eight or ten shots. But that was when the weather was colder.

If the camera is monitoring temperature somewhere and is overly protective and shutting things down when the temp gets too high then reporting it as a battery protection issue... Don’t know. Particularly, don’t know why electronic shutter would change anything. In some cameras, though, the sensor read process is a little different between electronic shutter and mechanical. My X1D, for example, has different read noise characteristics with electronic shutter.

[scott kirkpatrick]

The same amount of data has to be read off the chip whether it's being done line-at-a-time for the electronic shutter or exposed all at once with the mechanical shutter and then dragged off, line at a time.  But the mechanical shutter has to be recocked for each shot, and that takes energy.  So I think mechanical bursts are probably the most energy-consuming thing the camera does.  Of course, if the wifi and BlueTooth are yammering away at the same time, that should make things even worse, so firing off this stuff in Fotos Remote would be an interesting test.*

I tried to get a power monitor measurement on my SL2 by attaching an external power source through an ammeter, but it seems that the camera gets a constant current input, regardless of what it is doing.  That probably charges the battery in the background, and if the activity takes more power than is supplied externally, the battery will discharge eventually, but slower.  

*edit:  not so interesting.  Fotos doesn't have a shutter button that you can hold down for multiple shots even though in Settings you can put drive mode into continuous shooting modes.  You just get one exposure with each button press.

Edited April 26, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[Jim B]

I acquired a new battery and reset the camera. So far it enabled me to keep the camera on for about 1/2 hour and go all though the menu, readjust the profiles display to my liking, and still have energy to high speed burst at 3/4 battery. 
 

I haven’t tried it again, but planned to.

I also have a Leica L to M adapter and a newer 50apo m lens. When attached I noticed that it does not read the f stop and reports f4 when f2 was used in the meta data. Is this common? I thought the 6bit transferred all the data including f stop to the body?  I haven’t tried it with the 75 Noctilux yet.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Boojay]

11 minutes ago, Jim B said:

 

I also have a Leica L to M adapter and a newer 50apo m lens. When attached I noticed that it does not read the f stop and reports f4 when f2 was used in the meta data. Is this common? I thought the 6bit transferred all the data including f stop to the body?  I haven’t tried it with the 75 Noctilux yet.

6 Bit or not - aperture adjustment is purely mechanical on M Lens, no way for the camera to know, always just an estimate, just the same on an M body.