hankg Posted August 10, 2007 Share #1 Posted August 10, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Taken with the M8 so I posted the link here. A very interesting collection of photos taken in very unfortunate circumstances. Here's one shot with the Noctilux in available darkness: Bring to light on Flickr - Photo Sharing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 10, 2007 Posted August 10, 2007 Hi hankg, Take a look here Soldiers photos / Iraq. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
larry Posted August 10, 2007 Share #2 Posted August 10, 2007 Hank, This is a powerful set of photos, thanks for posting the link. Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentd Posted August 10, 2007 Share #3 Posted August 10, 2007 Incredible odyssey through a nightmarish world. What an eye!! What a journey. My congratulations and sympathy. Brent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 10, 2007 Share #4 Posted August 10, 2007 I'm glad I'm too old to fight.. What we put our youth through... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth_c Posted August 11, 2007 Share #5 Posted August 11, 2007 Yes, he has a great collection. He has a brilliant eye and seems to like to experiment. Seems like a great guy too from my brief exchanges with him. Good luck to him, and all the others out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted August 11, 2007 Share #6 Posted August 11, 2007 Thank you for pointing to this superb pictorial. Especially given the dearth of images from Iraq as results from the repression of real news and images that reach us, this is really important to see. But oh, how disturbing and depressing. Has there ever been a more hideous decision ever made by any President of the US? Has there ever been such a sheepish response from the populace? No images = no emotional understanding = no protest. The photographs and footage that came home from Vietnam every day ended that war. That seems to have been the only lesson the current administration took from that debacle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted August 11, 2007 Share #7 Posted August 11, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Peter, I share your sentiments about the war, although I dont agree that there is 'no coverage'. This week I've read a 15 page article in 'Der Spiegel', with photographs by Tina Hager, looked at the multi media piece by Rick Loomis, read another special feature by Patrick Cockburn in 'The Independent', read an article in Neon about fatal infection of injured soldiers, and Loomis's pictures reminded me of Nachtwey's similar project on injured American soldiers. I would have expected the coverage of the injured to influence US popular opinion, if anything would. The problem I have with the coverage from Iraq is that ALL of it is from one point of view, or rather from one side of the multi-faceted conflict. The casualty rate on the Iraqi side is 10 times higher, or more, And its largely (not exclusively) innocent bystanders who are being killed and injured. Where is the coverage of that? Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newyorkone Posted August 11, 2007 Share #8 Posted August 11, 2007 You have a gift for bringing out the subtleties and capturing the emotions of a moment. Great series... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted August 11, 2007 Share #9 Posted August 11, 2007 Peter,I share your sentiments about the war, although I dont agree that there is 'no coverage'. This week I've read a 15 page article in 'Der Spiegel', with photographs by Tina Hager, looked at the multi media piece by Rick Loomis, read another special feature by Patrick Cockburn in 'The Independent', read an article in Neon about fatal infection of injured soldiers, and Loomis's pictures reminded me of Nachtwey's similar project on injured American soldiers. I would have expected the coverage of the injured to influence US popular opinion, if anything would. The problem I have with the coverage from Iraq is that ALL of it is from one point of view, or rather from one side of the multi-faceted conflict. The casualty rate on the Iraqi side is 10 times higher, or more, And its largely (not exclusively) innocent bystanders who are being killed and injured. Where is the coverage of that? Guy Guy- Unless these images appear in the NY Times, and more so on the nightly news, as they did during the Vietnam War, they won't reach anywhere near the numbers required to impact the populace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted August 11, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted August 11, 2007 Thank you for pointing to this superb pictorial. Especially given the dearth of images from Iraq as results from the repression of real news and images that reach us, this is really important to see. But oh, how disturbing and depressing. Has there ever been a more hideous decision ever made by any President of the US? Has there ever been such a sheepish response from the populace? No images = no emotional understanding = no protest. The photographs and footage that came home from Vietnam every day ended that war. That seems to have been the only lesson the current administration took from that debacle. There was a draft during Vietnam. I remember in the early days of the Iraq war when the majority where for it one of the cable news talking heads held a show at a college campus. He asked how many in the audience where for the war. The majority of hands went up. Then he asked how many would be enlisting in the military to fight it. One guy raised his hand. It's easy to play Rambo when someone else will pay the price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted August 11, 2007 Share #11 Posted August 11, 2007 There was a draft during Vietnam. I remember in the early days of the Iraq war when the majority where for it one of the cable news talking heads held a show at a college campus. He asked how many in the audience where for the war. The majority of hands went up. Then he asked how many would be enlisting in the military to fight it. One guy raised his hand. It's easy to play Rambo when someone else will pay the price. Absolutely. This probably was the main lesson learned from Vietnam, even more crucial than repressing images. no draft = no identification with the horror. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted August 11, 2007 Share #12 Posted August 11, 2007 Peter, I dont think its that simple. The groundswell of (US) opinion seems to have peaked, and I suspect that part of the reason is that Democrats, instead of agitating, are now too busy positioning themselves for the presidential race and therefore avoiding the controversial issues.... The bigger problem is the message: 3,000+ killed by a terrorist attack in NY = America wants to change the world, yet 30,000+ killed in an (illegal?) war in Iraq = America doesnt give a s**t! For an opinion much better informed than mine, there is a link in this thread to Nachtwey's TED Prize acceptance speech: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/20976-nachtwey-video.html about 2/3 of the way through he talks about 9/11, which of course he witnessed first hand, and how he sees that as a culmination of 20 years of policy in the middle east. Robert Fisk also has strong opinions on this, and he is pretty well placed to know! Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted August 11, 2007 Share #13 Posted August 11, 2007 p.s. not sure the M8 forum is the right place for this!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 11, 2007 Share #14 Posted August 11, 2007 Hank, Thank you for sharing these with us. It brings a lump into my throat seeing what these poor young guys are going through and also the devastation of many of the lives of ordinary Iraqis, who just want to live decently from day to day - damn all extremists and politicians, who are equally to blame for the mess we are in today in Iraq. My son was going to join the UK army as a trainee officer with the Royal Engineers. Even the army professionals on his university Officer Training Corps scheme are saying "don't join son until Iraq is over." Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted August 11, 2007 Share #15 Posted August 11, 2007 Peter,I dont think its that simple. The groundswell of (US) opinion seems to have peaked, and I suspect that part of the reason is that Democrats, instead of agitating, are now too busy positioning themselves for the presidential race and therefore avoiding the controversial issues.... The bigger problem is the message: 3,000+ killed by a terrorist attack in NY = America wants to change the world, yet 30,000+ killed in an (illegal?) war in Iraq = America doesnt give a s**t! For an opinion much better informed than mine, there is a link in this thread to Nachtwey's TED Prize acceptance speech: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/20976-nachtwey-video.html about 2/3 of the way through he talks about 9/11, which of course he witnessed first hand, and how he sees that as a culmination of 20 years of policy in the middle east. Robert Fisk also has strong opinions on this, and he is pretty well placed to know! Guy Thanks for this link Guy. Wow. Perhaps it's time to divert some Leica funds to causes such as this. And, given the dearth of conversation in general, I respectfully disagree. Any place is the right place for such a discussion. best...Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted August 11, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted August 11, 2007 Peter,I dont think its that simple. The groundswell of (US) opinion seems to have peaked Americans have turned against the war because we are not winning. They expected a repeat of the Gulf war. We'd go in, kick butt and take names and they could catch the whole show on Fox news from the comfort of their living rooms. We have been fighting the Iraqi war longer then WWII and we still can't secure the highway from the capital to the airport. So the public isn't buying the BS anymore. They want results now or they want out. I'd like to think that the public is sick of the carnage and what might be as many as 100,000 Iraqi civilians dead. But the sad truth is that their could be a million Iraqis dead and they wouldn't give a crap if they thought we were winning. It's not a knock on Americans, they are no different then people anywhere else. Which is why leaders like Ghandi and Martin Luther King are so rare but guys like Bush, Saddam, Chavez, Osama, Mugabi, etc, etc, etc, are a dime a dozen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 11, 2007 Share #17 Posted August 11, 2007 I am afraid most politicians are much of a muchness. Even Ghandi was no saint. It was largely due to his intransigence and refusal to accept a power sharing government with the muslims in 1947, which forced the British to the partition solution. A conservative estimate is that that resulted in 1,000,000 deaths. A quick solution to the "Indian Problem" was a pre-condtion for the US granting an extension of the payment terms for war debt incurred by the UK 1939-45. Politicians again - grandstanding and causing untold death, misery and suffering. I often wonder if we would do better picking our leaders by lottery - you win, you have to serve for a year, no option - I don't think they could do much worse. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Flatline Posted August 11, 2007 Share #18 Posted August 11, 2007 These are great - thank you for sharing. The distorted abstracts help set he mood in this photo essay. In some odd way I envy your available subject matter, however weird that may sound. I don't misunderstand the circumstances in which these were taken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwalker649 Posted August 11, 2007 Share #19 Posted August 11, 2007 . Which is why leaders like Ghandi and Martin Luther King are so rare but guys like Bush, Saddam, Chavez, Osama, Mugabi, etc, etc, etc, are a dime a dozen. Jezzz...You guys are good photographers but spare me the liberal politics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted August 11, 2007 Share #20 Posted August 11, 2007 Jezzz...You guys are good photographers but spare me the liberal politics. Sure, if you can spare me, and the rest of the world, the catastrophic consequences of the current policies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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