cl: lens update in progress

[gteague]

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should i be posting these sorts of questions in the pinned faq thread? it's like  10 days since the last post, but you guys are all experts now, so i guess it's rarely needed except when n0-0bs like me show up!  anyway, i did a casual search for this question.

so i just got my tl 23/2 in from popflash??? on ebay and it's in like new or very mint condition. focus ring seems  a little stiff, but that's all to the better imo and this is my first leica lens since the 80s when i bought lenses from the 50s, so i have no point of comparison.

anyway, i removed my sigma lens and mounted the new 23mm lens and turned on the cl and a message popped up something like: 'stand by update in progress' and after a minute or two it asked me to restart. afaik i don't have wifi turned on, so the only update would have to be from the camera body to the lens.  is this a correct assumption? what are the implications of this, that the lens has had an update while sitting on a shelf waiting to be sold or that the body firmware v3.x needs to update every lens mounted.

btw, this lens is just the perfect walkaround size for the  cl. weighs much less than the sigma. and the hood isn't obscenely long and i might actually use it. i always give extra points to hoods which bayonet on and will reverse for storage. still, the sigma hood is solid metal and i've never seen its equal, not even by leitz!

/guy

Edited February 28, 2020 by gteague

[AeroMirage]

Lens update is normal. I have 4 TL lenses and the first time I put each one on it did the update thing. I think it is more of a linking to the camera body.

My 23/2 is one of my faves, second only to the 35/1.4.

[julian m]

As you speculate, I believe the lens firmware updates are stored in the camera body so they can be transferred whenever a lens is attached without Wi-Fi, yes.

The English text is a little rough, but Leica publishes a Firmware Installation Instruction sheet that says:

Quote

SL-lens firmware updates are already included in the SL-camera firmware as well as TL-lens firmware updates are included in the CL- and TL-camera firmware.

 

[gteague]

4 minutes ago, julian m said:

As you speculate, I believe the lens firmware updates are stored in the camera body so they can be transferred whenever a lens is attached without Wi-Fi, yes.

The English text is a little rough, but Leica publishes a Firmware Installation Instruction sheet that says:

 

thanks! that's actually a great idea as long as your lens line is limited. i suspect they don't load all the updates for all the l-mount lenses, for example. still, this is the first camera i've owned that used this procedure and it's sure better than my pansonics where i have to scroll through a long list of lenses and calculate dates and update every single one separately.

/guy

Edited February 28, 2020 by gteague

[jaapv]

It is standard for the `L mount. (except some Leica SL lenses on Panasonic bodies which seem to need an SL to be updated)

[gteague]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

It is standard for the `L mount. (except some Leica SL lenses on Panasonic bodies which seem to need an SL to be updated)

i understand sigma really screwed the pooch with their mc21 adapter which lets you use sigma and canon lenses on the l-mount system and doesn't work on leicas. they claim they didn't get the right data from leitz, but who knows. if i understand rightly, i won't be able to use that adapter on my cl for my canon ef lenses but i sure don't like the way adapted lenses focus on my s1, it's not that slow, but jerky. but since panasonic released the 16-35 and 70-200 l-mount lenses, i've sold off the equivalent canon models.

/guy

[jaapv]

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There is no real reason to use Canon lenses on the CL unless you own them already IMO. There are always rather nice (manual) equivalents available.

[gteague]

Just now, jaapv said:

There is no real reason to use Canon lenses on the CL unless you own them already IMO. There are always rather nice (manual) equivalents available.

i only have one canon lens left, a 40/2 pancake. now i have the tl 23/2, no need for the canon.

i have a nikon 105/2.5 from the 1950 which yields a very beautiful retro image, because of the coating methods used, i'm assuming. on the cl it'd be a hard to handle 160 or so. i also have a nikon mount rokino 14mm. but both those are much more useful on my s1 with my nikon adapter.

no, i actually plan to stop buying lenses especially for the cl after i decide whether i want the sigma 70mm macro coming out in a few days. that one would give me a nice 105/2.8 on the cl and a macro for the s1 where the ibis would allow macro shooting without a tripod. but i'm not closing the door to later adding some 'm' lenses using the leica lmt adapter.

/guy

[tommonego@gmail.com]

Just bought a 1978 105 f2.8 Micro Nikkor and it is exquisite on the CL. The 105 may surprise you it has always been one of Nikon's top performers. This is a 1959 85 f2 Nikkor Ltm on the CL. I had this lens and a 90 Elmarit, I kept the Elmarit.

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[gteague]

those old nikkors have a look all their own indeed. both the 105/2.5 and the micro nikkor 105 were two of the most highly regarded lenses when i was working at the camera store in the 60s and again in the 80s when i got out of the navy. /guy

Edited February 28, 2020 by gteague

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, gteague said:

i only have one canon lens left, a 40/2 pancake. now i have the tl 23/2, no need for the canon.

i have a nikon 105/2.5 from the 1950 which yields a very beautiful retro image, because of the coating methods used, i'm assuming. on the cl it'd be a hard to handle 160 or so. i also have a nikon mount rokino 14mm. but both those are much more useful on my s1 with my nikon adapter.

no, i actually plan to stop buying lenses especially for the cl after i decide whether i want the sigma 70mm macro coming out in a few days. that one would give me a nice 105/2.8 on the cl and a macro for the s1 where the ibis would allow macro shooting without a tripod. but i'm not closing the door to later adding some 'm' lenses using the leica lmt adapter.

/guy

Hmmm. Today I have been using the Vario-Elmar 105-280 R handheld on the TL and CL. Not too happy with the results as the light was grotty and the deer were far away. But they were sharp and no motion blur problems.. Shot at 1/250th and ISO 1600. The trick to using a small camera with a big lens is to balance the rig and take the weight with your left hand and only  use the right hand to stabilze the camera -and press the shutter, obviously Do not attempt to hold the combo by the camera as you will be waving it all over the landscape. Your face pressed against the back of the camera is the third stabilizing point. The left elbow pressed into the chest is the "monopod". Use sniper techniques to shoot: legs wide, hold your breath whilst releasing the shutter. I used the same combo on Safari last October.

[gteague]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

Hmmm. Today I have been using the Vario-Elmar 105-280 R handheld on the TL and CL. Not too happy with the results as the light was grotty and the deer were far away. But they were sharp and no motion blur problems.. Shot at 1/250th and ISO 1600. The trick to using a small camera with a big lens is to balance the rig and take the weight with your left hand and only  use the right hand to stabilze the camera -and press the shutter, obviously Do not attempt to hold the combo by the camera as you will be waving it all over the landscape. Your face pressed against the back of the camera is the third stabilizing point. The left elbow pressed into the chest is the "monopod". Use sniper techniques to shoot: legs wide, hold your breath whilst releasing the shutter. I used the same combo on Safari last October.

oh, believe me--i know _all_ the tricks. as i said elsewhere, i'm a strict available light shooter and i used to shoot in places that had very very little of even that. it's just i've gotten shaky over the years and even the ingrained techniques of many years have started, if not failing me entirely, being less effective.

i shot about a dozen images today--most in low light. and i think this combo is better than what showed in those images. i'm not saying they weren't sharp, but they weren't razor sharp which is what i demand of most images. i suspect if i'd shot the same things with my s1 and 5-7 stops of stabilization they'd have been tack sharp and indeed since i can put the tl 23/2 lens on the s1, i intend to test this theory out.

/guy

[tommonego@gmail.com]

Have a shot from last summer that I hand held with the 23 at 1/8 of a second, stationary subject so I had a second chance using the same technique Jaap described. Have shown it a couple of times here so won't bore the audience.

[jaapv]

Razor sharp is my touchstone as well, altough content will always be the first priority. Stabilisation is nice, I will use it if it is there,  and it helps when shooting my GX8 and 100-400  (800 equ.) in low light, but in any decent light I don't need it. I'm one of those freaks that can shoot am M camera  with 35 mm lens down to 1/4 second with a better than 50% hit rate as long as I can lean against a tree...

[gteague]

i'm trying to post 2 shots in here so we'll see if it works. first is the leica cl w/23/2 using metered exposure f2.5 1/60th. second is the panasonic s1 w/16-35/4 lens using metered exposure 16mm f6.3 1/320th. quite a difference i'd say although i reduced these immensely for uploading. i realize that the panny lens shot at the sweet spot whereas the 23/2 was nearly wide open.

that sign and the street sign are nice and contrasty and i use those to test stuff. bottom line is that the s1 image pops and the cl image is sad. but i haven't yet had a chance to tweak the styles to my liking. reviewers said the /standard/ profile is low contrast and even the /vivid/ profile isn't as vivid as other brands. so i might well have to really tweak the vivid one if i want the shots to pop. and now that i have these two here for comparison, i can easily try that and report back.

oh, and goes without saying these are both sooc since i avoid post in 99% of my shots.

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Edited February 29, 2020 by gteague

[jaapv]

Of course there is a difference. The sun came out in the second.The higher the contrast, the higher the apparent sharpness.

[gteague]

i was nearly at the end of magic hour in weak winter light for the cl shot, you're right. it might be this spring before i get the same conditions.

[ramarren]

22 hours ago, gteague said:

...
anyway, i removed my sigma lens and mounted the new 23mm lens and turned on the cl and a message popped up something like: 'stand by update in progress' and after a minute or two it asked me to restart. afaik i don't have wifi turned on, so the only update would have to be from the camera body to the lens.  is this a correct assumption? what are the implications of this, that the lens has had an update while sitting on a shelf waiting to be sold or that the body firmware v3.x needs to update every lens mounted. ...

You updated the CL to the latest firmware when you got it. Leica's updates for the L mount camera bodies includes any updates to the M and R lens profiles as well as any firmware updates for the associated lenses in the specific lens line intended for the body (TL and SL lens series). The lens firmware updates are stored in the camera body and are activated the first time one of the lenses that had a firmware update in the last body revision is mounted. The installation only happens once. 

This has nothing to do with the Sigma or other third-party L-mount lenses, adapters and their problems. Leica does not, cannot, supply updates for anything but Leica's own lenses and other accessories. Not all L-mount cameras have the exact same features, UI, or protocols: when third party vendors develop accessories and devices, they have to write code that works for what their intended use platform is and test it on that. They make mistakes; they don't necessarily want to cover all bases either for cost and expected ROI reasons. Sometimes they fix problems, sometimes they don't bother because they're not making any money from the development of that particular accessory. If you have an issue with a third party mount adapter or lens that doesn't work correctly with the camera and firmware revision you want, this is an issue you should take up with the vendor that created and sold it.