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Are the M10 Monochrom files too creamy?

Chaemono

By Chaemono
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Chaemono

Chaemono

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It's so easy to make the M10 Monochrom files look less creamy in LR and the Contrast slider isn't the one to use. In this one here Contrast was set to +5 only, the Clarity, Texture, and Dehaze sliders were left at zero. 

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-LZG7pV/

At ISO 160 in bright sunlight EV should be set at a minimum to -1.333 on the camera.  This is how this one was shot with a yellow filter. The DNG was opened in Preview and exported as a TIFF which was then opened in LR and brightness (Exposure) was adjusted by -0.3.

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And now the less creamy version after processing it a bit in LR but not by adding much contrast nor clarity at all.

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Chaemono

Chaemono

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Let's show one more with a link to download the DNG this time.  The contrast slider is not the main one to use in order to give the creamy/flat looking M10M files a bit more punch.  Contrast was only at +6 here. It's the Highlights, Shadows, Whites, and Blacks sliders that make all the difference.  A yellow filter was used.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-LZG7pV/

M10 Monochrom + 50 Noctilux opened in Preview, exported as TIFF, loaded in LR, Exposure + 0.5 (lens profile is missing). Link to download DNG here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g1031852574-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=IHlnLv3DZbVku_RShzyYRJsU27O3TpjeLPJiwBde8GA=

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ISO 160 f/0.95 @1/350 sec.

From DNG processed directly in LR

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davidmknoble

davidmknoble

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On 2/22/2020 at 2:41 PM, Chaemono said:

It's so easy to make the M10 Monochrom files look less creamy in LR and the Contrast slider isn't the one to use. In this one here Contrast was set to +5 only, the Clarity, Texture, and Dehaze sliders were left at zero. 

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-LZG7pV/

At ISO 160 in bright sunlight EV should be set at a minimum to -1.333 on the camera.  This is how this one was shot with a yellow filter. The DNG was opened in Preview and exported as a TIFF which was then opened in LR and brightness (Exposure) was adjusted by -0.3.

I prefer not to use the contrast slider but instead deal with the highlights, shadows, whites and blacks separately.  I like the yellow 8 filter on most lenses, but set the meter at -0.3 stops.  I use the manual mode and meter accordingly.

I’m not sure I follow your original post.  How are you metering at -1.3 stops, then reducing exposure by another 0.3 stops and getting an image like the one posted?  If the image is underexposed by 1.667 stops, then I would expect it to be very dark.  My experience so far with the M10M does not require that kind of under exposure unless the image has a really bright specular highlight that needs detail.

I’m also not sure I understand your term ‘creamy.’  

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Chaemono

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb davidmknoble:

I prefer not to use the contrast slider but instead deal with the highlights, shadows, whites and blacks separately.

Got it.  Maybe I misunderstood your statement "proper contrast adjustments can make the file just as nice as the CMOS." in #14 here: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/307465-m10m-12bit-or-14bit/?tab=comments#comment-3932380. 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb davidmknoble:

I’m not sure I follow your original post.  How are you metering at -1.3 stops, then reducing exposure by another 0.3 stops and getting an image like the one posted?

Run it through an EXIF analyzer to see for yourself.  

vor 5 Stunden schrieb davidmknoble:

If the image is underexposed by 1.667 stops, then I would expect it to be very dark.

Well, what can I say?  I'm sorry to disappoint you.

vor 5 Stunden schrieb davidmknoble:

I’m also not sure I understand your term ‘creamy.’  

The DNG files remind me of when I pour cream in my black coffee and then stir it.  Actually, I'm guilty of stealing the term from this review of the Monochrom (Typ 246) here: https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/05/16/the-new-leica-monochrome-typ-246-has-arrived/ "The files from the new MM 246 are creamier, richer, deeper, and to my eye, nicer. Not as harsh or crisp."

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davidmknoble

davidmknoble

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40 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

The DNG files remind me of when I pour cream in my black coffee and then stir it.  Actually, I'm guilty of stealing the term from this review of the Monochrom (Typ 246) here: https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/05/16/the-new-leica-monochrome-typ-246-has-arrived/ "The files from the new MM 246 are creamier, richer, deeper, and to my eye, nicer. Not as harsh or crisp."

So, when you say ‘creamier’ are you saying they are richer, deeper and to your eye, nicer?  I took it as something you did not like, just trying to clarify.

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davidmknoble

davidmknoble

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49 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

.  

Well, what can I say?  I'm sorry to disappoint you.

No disappointment, just trying to understand how you are setting your exposure.  Here is an M10M file, Summicron 28, Yellow 8 filter, metered with EV -0.3. I did not use auto exposure or auto ISO, but adjusted the shutter speed until I got the red dot.  So, based on the way I meter, had I under exposed this image by another 1.333 stops, it would have been very dark.  Salvageable, but not an ideal exposure.  That is what I was trying to figure out from your suggestion that we should use a minimum of -1.33 EV for a sunny day.  Using EV -0.3 provides good sunny images, the way I am setting exposures. (As always, clicking the image shows a better view).

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Chaemono

Chaemono

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb davidmknoble:

So, when you say ‘creamier’ are you saying they are richer, deeper and to your eye, nicer?  I took it as something you did not like, just trying to clarify.

By ‘creamier’ I mean soft but deep. Under certain circumstances ‘soft but deep’ can work as outputted by the camera with minimum adjustments.  But most times the files scream ‘there’s more here than what meets the eye.’  I prefer as a starting point “soft but deep.’  I can then make them as ‘harsh and crisp’ as I like. 

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Jeff S

Jeff S

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No mystery... the files are ‘flat’ as a result of high dynamic range and a fairly linear contrast curve, which has now been adjusted somewhat in LR to increase default contrast.  A simple tone curve adjustment, along with maybe some tweaking of black/white points, can quickly alter rendering in countless ways.  This isn’t unique to the Monochrom.

Jeff

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Chaemono

Chaemono

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb davidmknoble:

No disappointment, just trying to understand how you are setting your exposure.  Here is an M10M file, Summicron 28, Yellow 8 filter, metered with EV -0.3. I did not use auto exposure or auto ISO, but adjusted the shutter speed until I got the red dot.  So, based on the way I meter, had I under exposed this image by another 1.333 stops, it would have been very dark.  Salvageable, but not an ideal exposure.  That is what I was trying to figure out from your suggestion that we should use a minimum of -1.33 EV for a sunny day.  Using EV -0.3 provides good sunny images, the way I am setting exposures. (As always, clicking the image shows a better view).

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At the end, it’s the result that counts.

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fotografr

fotografr

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What's that? Did somebody around here call me too creamy?!?

50 smlx asph

 

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Edited by fotografr
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Keith (M)

Keith (M)

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Creamy?  Or just the mist/haze? ;)  M10M, ZM 50mm C-Sonnar, orange filter. Click to view in LightBox.

 

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Edited by Keith (M)
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