The206 Posted February 9, 2020 Share #1 Posted February 9, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, Having what appears to be a fatal flaw with the SL2, 75% battery level and it won't allow me to shoot 4K footage in any resolutions. Leica has had a long history of battery level issues and it appears they still can't figure it out. I cannot believe this is something they have yet to address. This makes using the camera nearly impossible. Basically 1 bar down on the battery and it prevents you from shooting. I switched over to HD 10bit 4:2:2 and I was able to record for an hour??? So there was obviously plenty of battery power left. Anyone have any thoughts on this and LEICA WAKE UP ITS BEEN 6 MONTHS FIX THIS! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 Hi The206, Take a look here 4K Recording with low battery. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
The206 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share #2 Posted February 9, 2020 So update to the issue, it appears that native mount lenses do not have this issue from what I have been able to test. When using the MC-21 adapter with sigma EF lenses when the battery drops one bar the error message appears, on a full battery there is no issue. Without the adapter using the Sigma L mount 45mm 2.8 I was able to record the 4k cine 24fps until the battery died. I am hoping this is something that can be fixed via firmware since the autofocus was not enabled on adapted lens. Will be testing with the PL mount adapter next, that will hopefully not have any issues Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted February 9, 2020 Share #3 Posted February 9, 2020 Yes. It has been discussed before. It even appears on medium photo taking Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The206 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share #4 Posted February 10, 2020 I have ordered the battery grip attachment I am hoping that helps solve some issues, but Leica should really address this quickly with firmware. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsmith Posted February 10, 2020 Share #5 Posted February 10, 2020 I had the Leica grip and returned it. With 2 fully charged batteries the grip battery would go down 75-50% and the camera would only shoot on single frame or not at all. Even thought the SL2 internal battery was full. When I removed the grip, both batteries worked at high speed for another 100-200 frames. I don't think it was a bad grip, I think there are firmware issues with the software. Also, the way the camera decides to use which battery is sporadic. We should be able to choose which battery is used up first. It's a PITA to change the SL2 internal battery when grip is mounted and a high risk of losing the "protective contact cap" while doing a battery switch. Its a bad design. For $1000 I expect more. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted February 11, 2020 Share #6 Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) Much easier to add an external USB power pack. (Important is the USB-C 3.1 connection, USB PD). Costs also much less (maybe 200$ ?) (Not for recharge, but for continuously running the camera off it.) To test if it works, you can first connect the camera to mains via a strong USB-C adapter. https://www.goalzero.com/blog/what-tech-usb-c-and-power-delivery/ Edited February 11, 2020 by caissa 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommydom Posted February 12, 2020 Share #7 Posted February 12, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) I did some testing today on my SL2. I first ran down the battery to about 50%, then set it up for recording 4K video at 60/fps. I attached the camera to a 45w charger I have from Google (for use on my Slate tablet) and started recording. What I saw was the icon next to the battery indicating an external power source was attached. As the recording went along and the battery showed that about 25% was left, and the message popped up indicating the power source was not sufficient to record the 4K video. The external monitor/recorder (Atomos Shogun Inferno) continued to record without issue until the battery in the camera was completely drained. (45-50 minutes of recording) The battery icon was flashing an empty red box until the camera powered off, and the monitor/recorder stopped getting a signal, and indicated as such on the control panel. When the camera was off, the light on the SL2 switched to the blinking green, indicating the battery was getting recharged. So, I was not able to get the SL2 to use the external AC power from my 45w charger. I do hope that this is addressed in a firmware update. Also of note that the front side of the camera was a little warm to my touch at the end of the recording - basically where the HDMI cable was plugged in. I do hope that is addressable via firmware as well and not a more serious engineering problem. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 12, 2020 Share #8 Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) Not all external USB charger interfaces are the same. There are some extra specifications that identify which of my drawer-full of mobile phone chargers can provide 7 as well as 5 volts and will keep the more demanding appliances supplied. The instruction manual (page 32) only promises that the camera can charge the battery from the USB input when USB charging is set ON in the menu and the camera is switched OFF. It does not promise continuous operation on external power, and says nothing about the type of USB charger required. Has anyone found more detailed information? I had assumed that the SL2 could run arbitrarily long on external USB power, but that seems not to be the case. Edited February 12, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted February 12, 2020 Share #9 Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, tommydom said: I did some testing today on my SL2. I first ran down the battery to about 50%, then set it up for recording 4K video at 60/fps. I attached the camera to a 45w charger I have from Google (for use on my Slate tablet) and started recording. What I saw was the icon next to the battery indicating an external power source was attached. As the recording went along and the battery showed that about 25% was left, and the message popped up indicating the power source was not sufficient to record the 4K video. The external monitor/recorder (Atomos Shogun Inferno) continued to record without issue until the battery in the camera was completely drained. (45-50 minutes of recording) The battery icon was flashing an empty red box until the camera powered off, and the monitor/recorder stopped getting a signal, and indicated as such on the control panel. When the camera was off, the light on the SL2 switched to the blinking green, indicating the battery was getting recharged. So, I was not able to get the SL2 to use the external AC power from my 45w charger. I do hope that this is addressed in a firmware update. Also of note that the front side of the camera was a little warm to my touch at the end of the recording - basically where the HDMI cable was plugged in. I do hope that is addressable via firmware as well and not a more serious engineering problem. The details are important. Which device is it ? Did you use a USB-C cable ? And the details of your device ? What is 45 Watt, the whole device when it is being loaded, or is it really the single USB port that you connect to the camera ? There are usually two types of ports (legacy and USB PD). Did you try both and see if there is a difference ? You probably have a USB-C charging device for your battery bank. Can you connect this directly to the camera ? Your description shows that it did not work at all (from the beginning). If it works, then the level of the internal battery should not be going down at all. (If 45W was on this single cable it would probably mean 15V x 3A) Or possibly I completely misunderstood: You use no battery bank, but only a charging device for a tablet. Correct ? And the cable is fully USB-C (on both ends ?) And the device is quite new (it must be able to exchange information with the opposite USB-C port about supported voltages) ? If it is just a power supply for a dedicated computer, then it will probably not have the flexibility of several voltages and probably not be compatible with the official USB PD protocol. So it never properly connected to the camera. The plug was alright, but the rest not fully compatible (as mentioned before, all USB ports are not created equal). Edited February 12, 2020 by caissa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommydom Posted February 12, 2020 Share #10 Posted February 12, 2020 Some specifics on the charger... It is a mode sold by Google made by Chicony Power Technology (Model W16-045N5A) that supports 15W (5V DC @ 3A), 27W (9V DC @ 3A), 36W (12V DC @ 3A), 45W (15V DC @ 3A), and 45W (20V DC @ 2.25A) output. It is an AC powered charger at 100-240V AC at 2.25A. It is a single cable USB C cable, both ends. Here is the link to the product from Google: https://store.google.com/us/product/45w_usb_c_power_adapter I found this test report online for this charger. https://gtrusted.com/google-45w-usb-c-power-adapter Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306288-4k-recording-with-low-battery/?do=findComment&comment=3911653'>More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 12, 2020 Share #11 Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) I ran my experiment again. This time I didn't use my 2019 or earlier Anker 10,000 which is USB Micro 3.0 and not PD ("power delivery") so I guess it doesn't deliver the 9 volts that the SL2 and S1/S1R are looking for. Instead I just used an iPad Pro charger (5 volts or 9 volts at 2.0 amps, PD capable, C plug tp C plug on the cables. I connected it to my SL2, started up the SL2 with auto timeout set to Never, turned on Fotos and began uploading picture thumbnails to a phone and running Remote. After about half an our of this, the camera battery was still showing 100%.. So I guess SnapChick and David Farkas were correct back in November that the SL2 takes external power, if you have the right kind of charger. Farkas said so because Leica assured him it works, but he hadn't tried it. SnapChick showed some long night shots and some time series stuff, so she had it working. The manual doesn't promise this, as all the chargers look alike, but they don't work the same... Tommydom, your charger supports all sorts of voltages and must have some software interface to select them, but it doesn't say USB3.0.1 PD. Try a late model iPad or iPhone charger and see if that works. Your test result article does sound like your adapter would have worked. Edited February 12, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted February 13, 2020 Share #12 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) To make things even more complicated, I found this: There is PD 1.0, 2.0 and since 2019 even 3.0. https://www.testandmeasurementtips.com/whats-new-in-usb-power-delivery-3-0-faq/ It would be really helpful if Leica would specify which standard they actually implemented in the USB port of the SL2. (Probably 3.0 ?). Or if they would specify the expected voltage, the internal battery has 7.2 V. Does the USB expect the same ? (Or will it accept 9 V because this is the closest value ?) Edited February 13, 2020 by caissa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted February 13, 2020 Share #13 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) If you already have a S1 or S1R, then it has a useful USB charger (the external battery charger is a USB PD device). It would probably also work very well with the SL2. The SL2 unfortunately still has the old battery charger from the SL. Not USB. (Yes there are more cables, but useful cables). I need to check if it can be bought separately. (As expected their batteries have the same 7.2 V). DMW-BTC14E, but an Apple/Anker 30W device is cheaper. Edited February 13, 2020 by caissa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted February 13, 2020 Share #14 Posted February 13, 2020 SL2 needs to be able to film 4K with just the internal battery or its a massive fail 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 13, 2020 Share #15 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, caissa said: If you already have a S1 or S1R, then it has a useful USB charger (the external battery charger is a USB PD device). It would probably also work very well with the SL2. The SL2 unfortunately still has the old battery charger from the SL. Not USB. (Yes there are more cables, but useful cables). I need to check if it can be bought separately. (As expected their batteries have the same 7.2 V). DMW-BTC14E, but an Apple/Anker 30W device is cheaper. Yes, the Panasonic charger seems to work just fine as an external USB PD source to my SL2. I ran some power-expensive Fotos stuff on the two of them for 20 minutes, and the battery in the SL2 is still at 100%. My older Anker 10000 cost me about $20. The newer Anker 10000 PD is now selling for $50. Edited February 13, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted February 13, 2020 Share #16 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) For the Anker PowerCore 26800 There also seem to be two versions. An older (around 50$) with 3 USB ports in a row, and a newer for about 130$ where the USB PD port is slightly to the right (with a small gap between). In the adds the specifications look “identical”, still the newer is probably the safer bet. Not so easy to choose the right device. Edited February 13, 2020 by caissa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
count_greebo Posted February 13, 2020 Share #17 Posted February 13, 2020 USB-C charging cables can differ wildly. The standard asks for a specific resistor to be built into the circuitry - that lets the devices negotiate voltage and current -, and quite some manufacturers do not adhere to the standards. To determine what works usually is a matter of testing, as, for example, the new Raspberry Pi 4 1st iteration is off spec in a way that it only works with a non-standard-conform cables. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommydom Posted February 17, 2020 Share #18 Posted February 17, 2020 I did some more testing and got the same results - the power provided by my charger works for charging the battery, but not a continuous video capture. A couple of questions, some notes, and some test methods/results. @caissa I agree that Leica should specify exactly what the power requirements are for the use of that USB C port for external power and charging. I did "test" the recharge capability of the battery in the camera using my charger (on AC power) and it did a full charge in about an hour, so it must be delivering the correct amount of power to do that job. I am fairly confident that the charger block and the USB C cable (both ends) that came with it are doing the job correctly at whatever voltage/amperage the camera port requires. @scott kirkpatrick Is there an explicit display of remaining battery charge in percentage terms somewhere on the camera? I have been using the analog battery icon on both the back LED panel and top LCD panel to determine the amount of charge available - based on what the manual says. I know that Fotos display's a percentage, but since I have not procured the license for video, it only shows up for stills. Notes: I noticed that if I set Camera Settings -> USB Charging -> Off, it still performs charging functions when the camera is turned off. I'm not sure that is the intended action. The manual is not very clear in English on what is done and when based on the setting title and the binary setting (On/Off) and the "Notes" in the English manual. I don't speak/read German, so I did not try and see what the DE manual actually says about the settings and their relevant functions... In my tests below, the amount of available disk for each recording is based on a freshly formatted 500GB SSD installed on my Atomos Shogun Inferno. In my tests below, the amount of time is based on my use of timers and/or stopwatch functions on my phone and my ability to be timely when checking for status changes, etc. Its not perfect by any means. The amount of available battery is based on my guess by looking at the icon on the camera and not an actual percentage being displayed anywhere I could see. Tests: I noted that in Camera Settings -> USB Charging -> On/Off was set to "On" for my first test in post #7 here on this thread, so I decided to try it with the setting to "Off". I also tried doing some external recording without any SD Cards in the camera. I was not exactly what I was expecting but noted that there were some bugs encountered by myself and others when both card slots were installed with SD Cards and video was recorded internally when SD1=SD2. Camera My method, today's first test: discharge the battery to 0% charge the battery for 10 min using my charger through the USB C port - achieved approximately 25% charge change Camera Settings -> USB Charging -> Off verified that the charging was not active (flashing green LED) when the camera was turned on record C4K/HLG/60fps (Atomos Shogun Inferno, about 49 minutes available disk) Result: battery discharges to 0% and camera shuts down at about 8.5 minutes My method, today's second test: discharge the battery to 0% charge the battery for 10 min using my charger through the USB C port - achieved approximately 25% charge change Camera Settings -> USB Charging -> Off remove all SD cards verified that the charging was not active (flashing green LED) when the camera was turned on record C4K/HLG/60fps (Atomos Shogun Inferno, about 42 minutes available disk) Result: battery discharges to 0% and camera shuts down at about 8 minutes My method, today's third test: discharge the battery to 0% charge the battery for 10 min using my charger through the USB C port - achieved approximately 25% charge change Camera Settings -> USB Charging -> Off verified that the charging was not active (flashing green LED) when the camera was turned on record 5K/HLG/30fps (Atomos Shogun Inferno, about 25 minutes available disk) Result: battery discharges to 0% and camera shuts down at about 6 minutes So, basically, with the USB C charger plugged into the camera, the battery is still getting drained when recording video. If there are any settings that I am missing, please let me know. Tommy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 17, 2020 Share #19 Posted February 17, 2020 This sounds harmful to your battery. I would suggest testing with a full battery, first without any external power, then with your various ways of hooking up external power. Record something that actually moves (traffic) for 20-30 minutes, or until the camera stops. Then remove the battery and put it in a charger that gives you a voltage measurement (or use a voltmeter) or just record the time to fully recharge. I don't think the Fotos percentage is any more accurate than the 4-bar icon measurement. I've only glanced on it over Fotos and it seems to indicate either 100% or 50%. Curiously, I can set my S1R to give me a percentage, which seems more realistic. But not the SL2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted February 18, 2020 Share #20 Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, tommydom said: I did some more testing and got the same results - the power provided by my charger works for charging the battery, but not a continuous video capture. A couple of questions, some notes, and some test methods/results. @caissa I agree that Leica should specify exactly what the power requirements are for the use of that USB C port for external power and charging. I did "test" the recharge capability of the battery in the camera using my charger (on AC power) and it did a full charge in about an hour, so it must be delivering the correct amount of power to do that job. I am fairly confident that the charger block and the USB C cable (both ends) that came with it are doing the job correctly at whatever voltage/amperage the camera port requires. @scott kirkpatrick Is there an explicit display of remaining battery charge in percentage terms somewhere on the camera? I have been using the analog battery icon on both the back LED panel and top LCD panel to determine the amount of charge available - based on what the manual says. I know that Fotos display's a percentage, but since I have not procured the license for video, it only shows up for stills. Notes: I noticed that if I set Camera Settings -> USB Charging -> Off, it still performs charging functions when the camera is turned off. I'm not sure that is the intended action. The manual is not very clear in English on what is done and when based on the setting title and the binary setting (On/Off) and the "Notes" in the English manual. I don't speak/read German, so I did not try and see what the DE manual actually says about the settings and their relevant functions... In my tests below, the amount of available disk for each recording is based on a freshly formatted 500GB SSD installed on my Atomos Shogun Inferno. In my tests below, the amount of time is based on my use of timers and/or stopwatch functions on my phone and my ability to be timely when checking for status changes, etc. Its not perfect by any means. The amount of available battery is based on my guess by looking at the icon on the camera and not an actual percentage being displayed anywhere I could see. Tests: I noted that in Camera Settings -> USB Charging -> On/Off was set to "On" for my first test in post #7 here on this thread, so I decided to try it with the setting to "Off". I also tried doing some external recording without any SD Cards in the camera. I was not exactly what I was expecting but noted that there were some bugs encountered by myself and others when both card slots were installed with SD Cards and video was recorded internally when SD1=SD2. Camera My method, today's first test: discharge the battery to 0% charge the battery for 10 min using my charger through the USB C port - achieved approximately 25% charge change Camera Settings -> USB Charging -> Off verified that the charging was not active (flashing green LED) when the camera was turned on record C4K/HLG/60fps (Atomos Shogun Inferno, about 49 minutes available disk) Result: battery discharges to 0% and camera shuts down at about 8.5 minutes My method, today's second test: discharge the battery to 0% charge the battery for 10 min using my charger through the USB C port - achieved approximately 25% charge change Camera Settings -> USB Charging -> Off remove all SD cards verified that the charging was not active (flashing green LED) when the camera was turned on record C4K/HLG/60fps (Atomos Shogun Inferno, about 42 minutes available disk) Result: battery discharges to 0% and camera shuts down at about 8 minutes My method, today's third test: discharge the battery to 0% charge the battery for 10 min using my charger through the USB C port - achieved approximately 25% charge change Camera Settings -> USB Charging -> Off verified that the charging was not active (flashing green LED) when the camera was turned on record 5K/HLG/30fps (Atomos Shogun Inferno, about 25 minutes available disk) Result: battery discharges to 0% and camera shuts down at about 6 minutes So, basically, with the USB C charger plugged into the camera, the battery is still getting drained when recording video. If there are any settings that I am missing, please let me know. Tommy. USB PD is necessary to run the camera off an external power pack or charger. This is the case in all brands (for example Gerald Undone tested it for the Fuji cameras with Anker PowerCore plus). So you need to buy another charger and/or battery bank. Recharging works without PD, but running the camera needs a confirmation from both sides (which your device cannot provide). And don’t drain your battery. It will not make a difference, but maybe harm it. Look in YouTube for the Undone video. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdwwISgSd9U Edited February 18, 2020 by caissa 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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