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Here are results from an initial side-by-side comparison of the M10-P vs. the M10 Monochrom (hereafter referred to as M10P vs. M10M).

M10P firmware = 2.7.5.0

M10M firmware = 2.12.8.0

Test conditions: Leica 75/1.25 Noctilux @ f/5.6, which together with the 50 APO @ f/5.6 offers the highest MTF performance of any Leica M lens at any aperture (according to Leica's data)

M10P ISO: 100, 400, 1600, 6400, 12500, 25000, 50000

M10M ISO: 160, 400, 1600, 6400, 12500, 25000, 50000, 100000

Auto shutter speed

2-second delay before capture (to eliminate tripod shake)

Both cameras were mounted to the same tripod and aimed at the same spot on the subject.  Live view at 100% was used to confirm that the optimal focus setting of the lens was the same for both cameras.

All DNG files were imported into Capture One 20, desaturated, processed with identical settings, then highest quality JPGs of each image were exported.

 

You can download all the files (JPGs, DNGs, 100% enlargement matrixes) here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fcjvrupm9d2cl2s/AABvi7z2QJZ1sAWU9hwb24-7a?dl=0

 

Summary: as expected, for monochrome images the M10M handily beats the M10P in terms of much lower noise AND much more detail.  In terms of background noise, after scaling the M10P or M10M images up or down to the same size (41 MP or 24 MP), I see about a 1.5-stop noise advantage for the M10M.  In terms of "usable" high-ISO image quality for monochrome images, I would set my personal threshold around ISO 18,000 for the M10P, and around 50,000 for the M10M (also a 1.5-stop advantage for the M10M).  But the surprise, for me, was that in terms of capturing subject detail, the combination of higher resolution, lack of a Bayer CFA, and (my guess) a better sensor even on a per-unit-area basis together resulted in the M10M at ISO 25,000 capturing as much or more detail in the subject than the M10P did at any ISO.  Of course, if you are shooting street photography, kids running, dreamy portraits, etc. the subject detail capture level difference probably won't matter.  But if your goal is to capture subject detail and black and white is acceptable, this is the most capable M body to date in my opinion.

Attached to this post is a 100% crop matrix from ISO 400 to ISO 50,000 of the M10P.  Click on the image to see it at approximately full size.  I'll attach the analogous matrix for the M10M to the next post.

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Edited by onasj
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And here is the 100% crop matrix from ISO 400 to ISO 50,000 of the M10M.  Click on the image to see it at approximately full size.

 

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Edited by onasj
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vor 6 Minuten schrieb onasj:

Here are results from an initial side-by-side comparison of the M10-P vs. the M10 Monochrom (hereafter referred to as M10P vs. M10M).

M10P firmware = 2.7.5.0

M10M firmware = 2.12.8.0

Test conditions: Leica 75/1.25 Noctilux @ f/5.6, which together with the 50 APO @ f/5.6 offers the highest MTF performance of any Leica M lens at any aperture (according to Leica's data)

M10P ISO: 100, 400, 1600, 6400, 12500, 25000, 50000

M10M ISO: 160, 400, 1600, 6400, 12500, 25000, 50000, 100000

Auto shutter speed

2-second delay before capture (to eliminate tripod shake)

Both cameras were mounted to the same tripod and aimed at the same spot on the subject.  Live view at 100% was used to confirm that the optimal focus setting of the lens was the same for both cameras.

DNG files were imported into Capture One 20, desaturated, then viewed at 100%. Highest quality JPGs of each image were exported.

 

You can download all the files (JPGs, DNGs, 100% enlargement matrixes) here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fcjvrupm9d2cl2s/AABvi7z2QJZ1sAWU9hwb24-7a?dl=0

 

Summary: as expected, for monochrome images the M10M absolutely crushes the M10P in terms of much lower noise AND much more detail.  In terms of background noise, after scaling the M10P or M10M images up or down to the same size (41 MP or 24 MP), I see about a 1.5-stop noise advantage for the M10M.  In terms of "usable" high-ISO image quality for monochrome images, I would set my personal threshold around ISO 18,000 for the M10P, and around 50,000 for the M10M (also a 1.5-stop advantage for the M10M).  But the surprise, for me, was that in terms of capturing subject detail, the combination of higher resolution, lack of a Bayer CFA, and (my guess) a better sensor even on a per-unit-area basis together resulted in the M10M at ISO 25,000 capturing as much or more detail in the subject than the M10P did at any ISO.  

Attached to this post is a 100% crop matrix from ISO 400 to ISO 50,000 of the M10P.  Click on the image to see it at approximately full size.  I'll attach the analogous matrix for the M10M to the next post.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

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Thanks for doing these.  I suspect Leica is going with BSI sensors for the M10M, M10-R, S3.  BSI allows for high resolution and good noise performance at high ISO at the same time.  It makes sense because the Ms will never have IBIS unlike the SL2.  TowerJazz has foundry BSI manufacturing capabilities now and I guess they make the sensors. 

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9 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Thanks for doing these.  I suspect Leica is going with BSI sensors for the M10M, M10-R, S3.  BSI allows for high resolution and good noise performance at high ISO at the same time.  It makes sense because the Ms will never have IBIS unlike the SL2.  TowerJazz has foundry BSI manufacturing capabilities now and I guess they make the sensors. 

BSI sensors allow for faster readout and improvement in corners with certain lenses. They do not help significantly with noise in larger sensors (APS-C, FF).

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikon-2015-news/june-2015-nikon-news/re-bsi-and-stacked-sensors.html

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vor 20 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

BSI sensors allow for faster readout and improvement in corners with certain lenses. They do not help significantly with noise in larger sensors (APS-C, FF).

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikon-2015-news/june-2015-nikon-news/re-bsi-and-stacked-sensors.html

I agree at lower ISO but at ISO 3200 and above BSI FF sensors do have an advantage in terms of noise and DR, IMO.

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12 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

I agree at lower ISO but at ISO 3200 and above BSI FF sensors do have an advantage in terms of noise and DR, IMO.

Based on what I have read so far, I do not believe that BSI sensors bring improvements at higher ISO.

When Nikon switched from non-BSI sensor (D810) to BSI sensor (D850), no improvement in noise and DR were observed in the new camera. What helps with high ISO noise and dynamic range is the dual gain technology (Aptina).

AFAIK :-).

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