Future SL Roadmap -guesses

[caissa]

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It provided room to charge more ...  😎🤣

[caissa]

If Karbe is too old to be a bit flexible, then hopefully his successor will be younger and open for other ideas.   If you ask specialists, then the common outer size of the primes saves not a lot of money. They are still handmade and inside quite different from each other. And still quite small numbers. So this was often cited, but is not necessarily true.

Outsourcing a small entry lens (only 6 or 7 optical elements, without Apo) would probably lead to a much lower price. (Who produces the AF lens of the Q ?)

It would be interesting to know if the Q lens is “self sufficient” or if the AF motor sits in the camera body and not inside the lens body. Did anybody disassemble a Q ?

Edited January 14, 2020 by caissa

[Jeff S]

12 minutes ago, caissa said:

It provided room to charge more ...  😎🤣

I understand the humor, given Leica prices, but in this case it provided cost savings based on standardized design and some internal components, including some glass elements. Plus the SL competition doesn’t allow Leica the pricing flexibility and likely margins of the M range, which beats to its own drum.  Otherwise the SL APO Summicrons, in the M world, would surely be several thousand more (like initial S lenses).

Jeff

Edited January 14, 2020 by Jeff S

[scott kirkpatrick]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I understand the humor, given Leica prices, but in this case it provided cost savings based on standardized design and some internal components, including some glass elements. Plus the SL competition doesn’t allow Leica the pricing flexibility and likely margins of the M range, which beats to its own drum.  Otherwise the SL APO Summicrons, in the M world, would surely be several thousand more (like initial S lenses).

Jeff

Or the M75 and 90 lenses most recently introduced...

[Guest]

Just curious, do people in general expect much more L-mount lenses from Leica?

Given the S (10 lenses, some both CS and FP, last lens 2014) and the T/CL (7 lenses, last lens 2017) my personal expectations are relatively low I have to admit.

Certainly in 2020-2021 I would be very surprised to see anything more than the 3 already announced lenses.  Always ready to be pleasantly surprised though.

[Tailwagger]

19 minutes ago, Artin said:

 If they stay in this Billionaire only club then I am afraid we won’t see much soon, by the time they have a full system most of us will be in Valhalla 

Indeed.  I have wondered if there has been any thought about a line of Elmarit/Elmars @ 60% the cost of the 'crons. My guess is, assuming that the L-mount soldiers on into maturity, that will happen at some point... but likely not before many of us meet our ancestors. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Tailwagger

[caissa]

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But I think Leica makes money with lenses (not the SL2 camera). So I would rather bring out more lenses than more cameras. (They actually bring out more lenses for M all the time.)  But the customer base for the SL2 is much smaller than for M. So the SL lenses probably sell in smaller numbers than M lenses.

I think the strength of Leica lies in the lenses, not the camera. The strong points of the SL2 are based mainly on parts developed by other companies (so probably thinner margins for Leica). Six months ago the SL looked rather weak, currently the SL2 looks very strong (because it is new), but in 12 months it will look much weaker again.

They have the Know-how to build high-end bodies in small quantities. For cheaper bodies they would probably need help from outside again. (There is at least as much knowledge in driving down costs for cheaper bodies - and they probably don’t have that in house.) A waste of resources to build low-end cameras.

Edited January 15, 2020 by caissa

[Simone_DF]

6 hours ago, caissa said:

So the SL lenses probably sell in smaller numbers than M lenses.

I agree, and I think this is not going to change anytime soon, if ever, because M lenses are also compatible with basically all other mirrorless systems, and there's a whole (niche?) market of people buying M mount lenses to be used exclusively on Sony or Fuji or the rest.

[NRKstudio]

On 1/14/2020 at 7:41 AM, caissa said:

Could the 1.7/28mm from the Q2 be switched to the SL2 ?   It is not on the level (IQ) of the SL Summicrons, but all the corrections would already be known, so should be a “minor effort” to move it to the L-mount ?!   A 50 or a 28, both would be very welcome.

I believe a Japanese Leica site published that the Q/Q2 lens was created under joint patent by another company’s designers (maybe Sony? Fuji even? I can’t remember, it was linked here and on FM when the Q2 was released) but the patent design is licensed to Leica.  I believe such is the cause for it wasn’t upgraded on the Q2 to fix the corner smearing issue.  Thus I’d doubt we would see it on L mount, as it would have to be licensed again and the other design company would have to upgrade it  (more importantly it would not generate returns similar to their in-house optics sold without license).  
 

How about a remake of the 40 Summicron in miniature Size for the L mount.  Would be a killer lens, kind of like the Sigma just faster and sharper!  If not, a 75 Summilux would be my vote.  

 

 

[NRKstudio]

23 hours ago, caissa said:

But I think Leica makes money with lenses (not the SL2 camera). So I would rather bring out more lenses than more cameras. (They actually bring out more lenses for M all the time.)  But the customer base for the SL2 is much smaller than for M. So the SL lenses probably sell in smaller numbers than M lenses.

I think the strength of Leica lies in the lenses, not the camera. The strong points of the SL2 are based mainly on parts developed by other companies (so probably thinner margins for Leica). Six months ago the SL looked rather weak, currently the SL2 looks very strong (because it is new), but in 12 months it will look much weaker again.

They have the Know-how to build high-end bodies in small quantities. For cheaper bodies they would probably need help from outside again. (There is at least as much knowledge in driving down costs for cheaper bodies - and they probably don’t have that in house.) A waste of resources to build low-end cameras.

If you listen to the Quarterly reports by Nikon or Canon they all talk about value add products carrying revenue in these lean(er) times.  That is, value add products are lenses developed in house and using in house manufacturing (of glass, lens bodies, software, mounts, etc.).  We are starting to see the turn of camera makers to the professional segment and cameras which act as a platform for lens sales.  2019 was the year of the lens, best year for lens design in modern digital history!

[Guest]

On 1/15/2020 at 12:20 AM, caissa said:

 But the customer base for the SL2 is much smaller than for M. So the SL lenses probably sell in smaller numbers than M lenses.

And it takes longer to recover R&D costs which are probably higher for SL lenses as well...

I guess the expectation is (or might be) that Panasonic and Sigma users will eventually start buying Leica lenses as well...

Wait and see...