File numbering logic

[hirohhhh]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Is there a way to know how many shots I've taken with my SL. The current numbering system seems wrong to me and does not say anything about the actual number of shots taken so far.

Few examples by order:

20160828-1010630
20160828-1010631
20160828-1010632
20160829-1020638 <- why 102 on the very next day
20160829-1020639
20160829-1020640

...

20170831-1060592
20170831-1000007 <- is it possible that I reset the numbering or something else happened? I don't remember
20170831-1000008

Generally I have these "skips" from 101 to 102 and then 103, 104 etc all the time throughout the years. I ended up with the number of 1080225 as of yesterday. There's no chance I have taken 80k shots with this camera. My guess is less than 10k because I only have 6k images stored in Lightroom library and I rarely delete anything.

Anyone has an explanation for this messy numbering system?

Edited January 1, 2020 by hirohhhh

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[thighslapper]

Any form of reset including updating firmware will reset the numbering system to zero. 

Deliberately or inadvertently pressing 'reset image numbering' in the menus will increment then folder by 1.

With high capacity SD cards if you go over 999 images it will force an increment in the folder number (or at least it does on the S1R and I believe this is part of the cards filing protocol and nothing to do with the camera).

At one stage the SL itself also incremented the folder number after 999 images and not 9999 as expected. I'm not sure if and when this was fixed. You may get different opinions on this as some never noticed any problems ...... or didn't care/ignored them. 

If you search there are numerous past threads on this, and the problems seem endemic in Leica's Firmware as there have been complaints since M240 days. I gave up emailing Leica years ago and now use a renumbering app as part of my importing workflow to my home computer. Most of the replies you will get to this will just tell you to do the same .... 🙁

The S1R has a number of menu options to prevent and circumvent similar issues, so I have a nice, tidy, bomb-proof sequential numbering system. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by thighslapper

[hirohhhh]

4 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

Any form of reset including updating firmware will reset the numbering system to zero. 

Deliberately or inadvertently pressing 'reset image numbering' in the menus will increment then folder by 1.

With high capacity SD cards if you go over 999 images it will force an increment in the folder number (or at least it does on the S1R).

At one stage the SL also incremented the folder number after 999 images and not 9999 as expected. 

If you search there are numerous past threads on this, and the problems seem endemic in Leica's Firmware as there have been complaints since M240 days. I gave up emailing Leica years ago and now use a renumbering app as part of my importing workflow to my home computer. Most of the replies you will get to this will just tell you to do the same .... 🙁

The S1R has a number of menu options to prevent and circumvent similar issues, so I have a nice, tidy, bomb-proof sequential numbering system. 

Thanks. I read a post from 2016, but I though something might changed since then.

So, there's no way to know how much exactly photos did I take so far? Is there any other ID, perhaps in the metadata that shows that information?

[thighslapper]

Just now, hirohhhh said:

So, there's no way to know how much exactly photos did I take so far? Is there any other ID, perhaps in the metadata that shows that information?

No

The Unique Image Identifier in the metadata is generated by an algorithm known only to Leica and the number of shutter actuations can only be revealed by accessing the Service Menu ..... which no-one except Leica employees have access to.

I'm partly to blame for this ...... I got a new replacement M9 out of them after I complained my 'as new, factory refurbished' camera from Leica Mayfair actually had 10,000 actuations on the clock. Of course most of this was probably folk just clicking the shutter when it was used as a demo .... but it did cost them a few thousand £ and prompted others to check their cameras resulting in some further moans and groans. Also video clocks up a lot of actuations so the numbers become meaningless unless you can separate the two. As a result the have removed the ability of the user to check this. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Users weren't supposed to get into the service interface of the M9, either.  But the path to the Easter Egg got posted on the web.  Maybe the M240 and M10's paths to this data which is not really meaningful to us (but intriguing) are known somewhere outside of a Leica Store lab as well.  For the SLs, it seems you need hardware to query the service data.  There were some posts a few months ago from someone exploring with that capability...

I don't think you should take any blame for pointing out that someone in the refurb shop forgot to rewind the odometer to zero.

Edited January 1, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[hoppyman]

Is it possible that memory cards used had existing folders on them? Not necessarily from this specific camera.

i noticed an unexplained change to 101 I think although I haven’t shot 9999 frames as yet. Haven’t looked closer at what happened yet.

[thighslapper]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Users weren't supposed to get into the service interface of the M9, either. 

You could read the number taken from the EXIF with Exifinfo or any other app.

The current SL/M240 exif file numbering was superficially random ..... but appeared to 'seed' from a new 'base' number every time the camera is switched on and then incremented from there in an irregular upward pattern. None of us could discern any other pattern that would give a clue as to how the numbering was generated.

[frame-it]

from the exiftool forum >>

It was version 11.25 that renamed some of the ImageCount tags (see the version history).  Sorry about breaking your script, but it became apparent that these were indeed counting shutter actuations and not images (partly due to the effect mentioned above).

- Phil

 

and he also mentions that some camera manufacturers don't add shutter count into the raw data anymore

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by frame-it

[AlanJW]

On 1/1/2020 at 3:35 AM, thighslapper said:

I gave up emailing Leica years ago and now use a renumbering app as part of my importing workflow to my home computer. Most of the replies you will get to this will just tell you to do the same .... 🙁

 

Would you mind posting what you use to renumber on import?  That sounds like a good idea. Thanx. 

[thighslapper]

I use Namechanger ..... https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/21516/namechanger which was free the last time I looked. 

I tried a fair few of these and none are perfect..... and there are also multiple ways of doing what you want. Getting your head round the logic behind some of the features takes a while, but once you have sorted out what you want to do, just save it as a batch profile and run it every time. It may work for you .... it may not. All but the most simple solutions will require some user input. 

I long ago decided to have different prefixes to identify the cameras I use from the filenames and just dump the whole lot in one yearly folder. (I keep files outside the LR catalogue and all but the current years on a networked NAS drive). Originally I set this on each camera itself, but once the file numbering fiasco began I needed to renumber them anyway. I end up running different batch profiles for my current trio of CL, SL2 and S1R. If I had any sense I would just number the whole lot sequentially on import to avoid duplications ..... or be more ordered and sensible and use specific date or placename prefixes, but I now have far too many images to start tidying things up or changing my storage rationale..... particularly as I have nearly 20 years of digital images on multiple back-up platforms scattered far and wide.  Yes, I know there are much better ways of doing things, but I'll stick with the devil I know, thanks. 

 

[LocalHero1953]

44 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

...................

I long ago decided to have different prefixes to identify the cameras I use from the filenames and just dump the whole lot in one yearly folder. (I keep files outside the LR catalogue and all but the current years on a networked NAS drive). Originally I set this on each camera itself, but once the file numbering fiasco began I needed to renumber them anyway. ................... 

 

I tried setting this in the CL firmware once, then discovered, late, that the prefix was saved in my previously created user profiles, so each time I reloaded a profile, the prefix reverted to the original. I'd have to set the prefix in each user profile in turn (cue head-banging-against-a-brick-wall gif). 

I now batch rename everything, and do an initial cull, in Bridge before importing into Lightroom (which, unlike LR Classic, cannot batch rename images - Leica does not have a monopoly on daft software decisions).

Edited January 3, 2020 by LocalHero1953