Using The SL2 for Street Photography

[nryn]

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I don’t really buy into the notion that one is more discreet on the street with an M than they are with another camera. I understand, though, that it’s one of the aspects of the Leica religion that people get pretty zealous about, even going so far as to say that it’s much harder to take a good street photo with a silver M than it is with a black chrome M. I think if you mount a 600mm lens you’ll get some stares, but I think there’s a lot more that goes into being noticed than whether or not you’re shooting with a few thousand dollars of rangefinder gear. Whatever makes people feel better about their choices, I suppose. 

I’ve only taken the SL2 out for a walk (taking one of a variety of SL lenses) a few times since getting it. I very much enjoy AF in a variety of contexts (it was a godsend on a photoshoot I finished last week) but I don’t think the AF is going to work for me for street photography, I’m just too used to focusing on an M lens perhaps or have to learn how to make AF as second nature to me as my rangefinder lenses. I found the CL to be the same—I did best (on the street) with an M lens mounted on it, though the mechanics on the CL are somewhat different (the viewfinder isn’t as good as the SL2 so I ended up doing a lot more viewfinder magnification, which works well but takes time).

Similarly, I’m not sure if the focus-by-wire will work for me while walking around, but maybe that’s a learning curve. I’m currently experimenting with back button focus via the joystick and tweaking with the focus ring but find myself lost most of the time. When it works, the images are wonderful. 

I’ll give the SL lenses a little more time before going back to M lenses via an adapter. The SL2 with an M lens is a much better shooting experience (for me) than the same lenses on a CL, at least so far.

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[Likaleica]

I like Jeff S's idea of SL2 with 75 and M10 with 35/50.  Reminiscent of photojournalism in the 1960's, M/35 + Nikon F/85

[scott kirkpatrick]

I like to shoot interactions within groups with the 24-M Elmarit-asph, and it is most natural on my M10 or M10-D because of the extra speed in focusing.  But I had to try with the SL2.  Preset distances work the best, but if I have already been noticed (and with the 24, you are close to the subject), a little conversation helps.

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U1000197 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

U1000199 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

I've signed up for a SL Summicron 24 when it finally appears.

[johnbuckley]

20 hours ago, etherfarm said:

I don’t really buy into the notion that one is more discreet on the street with an M than they are with another camera. 

With respect, I really do. I recently went to Marrakech with a number of other photographers, and wrote about the experience of shooting, mostly from the hip, with an M. People in the tourist-clogged streets loath being photographed. Whether the other photographers were using a DSLR or an iPhone, it seemed I was able to get away with a lot more carrying an M10 and a small 35mm Summicron lens. In fact, when a group of us went to a farmers' market in the Ourika Valley, in order to prevent uncomfortable situations, the woman who had organized our trip forbade our group from taking pictures -- other than me. (In our van afterward, I processed a few of mine using the Fotos app and shared with everyone.)

Now, you are absolutely right that being able to use manual lenses and pre-focus was part of it. In fact, a big part of it. But I could have been as crafty as possible with an SL2 and a 35mm Summicron-SL and gotten either none of the shots or yelled at. We can have the debate over whether an SL can be used on the street, but there really isn't any argument that with an M you are more discreet. It's not myth or Leica lore. 

[canlogic]

Good friend of mine who shoots with an M both a silver and black and also with an SL and apo 75 here in Montreal feels it doesn’t make a difference for many situations. He thinks its more that you need to be stealthy. I shoot a Q2 and an SL or S1R usually with 50 or 75 and I haven’t really noticed a difference here in Montreal or in NY etc. He did an article in Cuba for LFI and used the M’s extensively and in Romania this summer he said it depended on the situation but he did take a few thousand images with the SL.

[nryn]

2 hours ago, johnbuckley said:

With respect, I really do. I recently went to Marrakech with a number of other photographers, and wrote about the experience of shooting, mostly from the hip, with an M. People in the tourist-clogged streets loath being photographed. Whether the other photographers were using a DSLR or an iPhone, it seemed I was able to get away with a lot more carrying an M10 and a small 35mm Summicron lens. In fact, when a group of us went to a farmers' market in the Ourika Valley, in order to prevent uncomfortable situations, the woman who had organized our trip forbade our group from taking pictures -- other than me. (In our van afterward, I processed a few of mine using the Fotos app and shared with everyone.)

Now, you are absolutely right that being able to use manual lenses and pre-focus was part of it. In fact, a big part of it. But I could have been as crafty as possible with an SL2 and a 35mm Summicron-SL and gotten either none of the shots or yelled at. We can have the debate over whether an SL can be used on the street, but there really isn't any argument that with an M you are more discreet. It's not myth or Leica lore. 

I’m glad you think so and that it works for you—really. But to me it’s Leica religion. Those who believe see it as truth. There are (good) cameras that are smaller than the M but Leica users deem their optics inferior. So it’s better to have a small camera but not too small because then it can’t be a Leica or a proper rangefinder or whatever it is they want to rationalize.

I’ll put it this way (and hopefully without getting too political), in most places people notice that I’m not white WAY before they notice I have a camera (and trust me, in Morocco, a place I’ve been, they notice a Caucasian way before they notice a camera). As Canlogic states, I think it is more about being stealthy than about having a stealthy camera. I think if one truly wants to blend in these days they’d use a phone. And in some places like Morocco, they’d notice that pretty quickly too.

I’ve been shooting Leicas for a long time (inherited an M3 from an uncle decades ago) and use my M for maybe 85% of my photography. So it’s not that I have any gripes against the M or Leica, merely that I am not a zealot and the extent to which people get worked up about these things makes me chuckle a bit. And I really do mean that—shoot what works for you  I won’t get preachy (I’m not a preacher but am clearly a member of the choir). In the end I’m glad we can all make our own decisions and for what it’s worth, I am not selling my M or transitioning to the SL system, just adding a tool to the toolkit.

Anyway, my main point was this: the SL for street will be fine. I find it easier to focus on the SL EVF than with the rangefinder (which really surprised me). I’m having some issues with the mechanics and ergonomics of using AF for street photography, but am completely willing to admit that roots of those problems are with me, not the system. The SL + M lenses will get some folks’ hackles up due to the perceived size of the overall setup but I think it’s a winner combination that in truth is only marginally larger than an M. And with M lenses you can still shoot from the hip if that’s your thing.

Anyway, hope this isn’t considered trolling. Certainly not my intention. Just wanted to respond in earnest to the OP’s question about the suitability of the SL for street.

[Leicaiste]

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1 hour ago, etherfarm said:

But to me it’s Leica religion. Those who believe see it as truth.  ..

Anyway, hope this isn’t considered trolling. Certainly not my intention. Just wanted to respond in earnest to the OP’s question about the suitability of the SL for street.

Sorry but when you say Leica religion, you are trolling. 

[ron777]

53 minutes ago, Leicaiste said:

Deleted 

Edited December 14, 2019 by ron777

[ron777]

2 hours ago, etherfarm said:

I’m glad you think so and that it works for you—really. But to me it’s Leica religion. Those who believe see it as truth. There are (good) cameras that are smaller than the M but Leica users deem their optics inferior. So it’s better to have a small camera but not too small because then it can’t be a Leica or a proper rangefinder or whatever it is they want to rationalize.

I’ll put it this way (and hopefully without getting too political), in most places people notice that I’m not white WAY before they notice I have a camera (and trust me, in Morocco, a place I’ve been, they notice a Caucasian way before they notice a camera). As Canlogic states, I think it is more about being stealthy than about having a stealthy camera. I think if one truly wants to blend in these days they’d use a phone. And in some places like Morocco, they’d notice that pretty quickly too.

I’ve been shooting Leicas for a long time (inherited an M3 from an uncle decades ago) and use my M for maybe 85% of my photography. So it’s not that I have any gripes against the M or Leica, merely that I am not a zealot and the extent to which people get worked up about these things makes me chuckle a bit. And I really do mean that—shoot what works for you  I won’t get preachy (I’m not a preacher but am clearly a member of the choir). In the end I’m glad we can all make our own decisions and for what it’s worth, I am not selling my M or transitioning to the SL system, just adding a tool to the toolkit.

Anyway, my main point was this: the SL for street will be fine. I find it easier to focus on the SL EVF than with the rangefinder (which really surprised me). I’m having some issues with the mechanics and ergonomics of using AF for street photography, but am completely willing to admit that roots of those problems are with me, not the system. The SL + M lenses will get some folks’ hackles up due to the perceived size of the overall setup but I think it’s a winner combination that in truth is only marginally larger than an M. And with M lenses you can still shoot from the hip if that’s your thing.

Anyway, hope this isn’t considered trolling. Certainly not my intention. Just wanted to respond in earnest to the OP’s question about the suitability of the SL for street.

+1

Edited December 14, 2019 by ron777

[nryn]

22 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I like to shoot interactions within groups with the 24-M Elmarit-asph, and it is most natural on my M10 or M10-D because of the extra speed in focusing.  But I had to try with the SL2.  Preset distances work the best, but if I have already been noticed (and with the 24, you are close to the subject), a little conversation helps.

I've signed up for a SL Summicron 24 when it finally appears.

 Scott, do you intend to shoot the 24-SL with AF in similar settings?

I tried for years to "see" with a 24 Elmarit-M, which is a great lens. But it was a focal length that I couldn't get along with. Your 24 is my 28. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

6 hours ago, etherfarm said:

 Scott, do you intend to shoot the 24-SL with AF in similar settings?

I tried for years to "see" with a 24 Elmarit-M, which is a great lens. But it was a focal length that I couldn't get along with. Your 24 is my 28. 

Yes.  I use point AF, trying to keep the point in the center.  It's the only thing faster then the M's rangefinder.  Of course with a 21 or 24 or even 28@f/5.6 and higher, prefocusing works well.  I don't worry about hyperfocal distances, just set for the point of greatest interest.

I shot with an M2 and a 35/2.0 Canon  LTM lens for many years, then got the M 28/2.8 asph with my M8.  Recently I attended a workshop led by William Schneider (4 Pulitzers!) whose press-oriented strategy was, more or less, "they know you're there, so don't worry and get close."  He is a big fan of the 24, and the 24/2.8 asph is a great lens, so I shifted over to it.  On an M it requires an external viewfinder for framing, but of course focuses quite accurately with the RF.

[nryn]

1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Yes.  I use point AF, trying to keep the point in the center.  It's the only thing faster then the M's rangefinder.  Of course with a 21 or 24 or even 28@f/5.6 and higher, prefocusing works well.  I don't worry about hyperfocal distances, just set for the point of greatest interest.

I shot with an M2 and a 35/2.0 Canon  LTM lens for many years, then got the M 28/2.8 asph with my M8.  Recently I attended a workshop led by William Schneider (4 Pulitzers!) whose press-oriented strategy was, more or less, "they know you're there, so don't worry and get close."  He is a big fan of the 24, and the 24/2.8 asph is a great lens, so I shifted over to it.  On an M it requires an external viewfinder for framing, but of course focuses quite accurately with the RF.

Multi-point AF has never worked well for me, on any system. I'm experimenting with SL2's "field" AF but if not MF, I am most comfortable with point AF. This is also true on my CL.

I completely agree with Mr. Schneider, though academically-speaking I think there are some differences in the goals of reportage (in the professional sense) and street photography. On the M I almost never shoot above 50mm (and usually 18 or 28) because it forces me to get up close. 

[nryn]

10 hours ago, Leicaiste said:

Sorry but when you say Leica religion, you are trolling. 

That's a little hard for me to read after the purchase of an SL2 + several lenses and decades of Leica gear and photography. In other words, I've made quite a few donations to the church and attend services regularly. But point taken, and apologies if feathers were ruffled.

Scott, I neglected to say that I found your article a wonderful read and it mimics much of the trajectory I've taken over the years. I've tried a few systems over the years but kept coming back to the M. I was tempted when the SL came out and ultimately passed but I am glad I got the SL2. I think you are spot on in your article when you say: 

Quote

I can take an SL and use it like an M

This is probably where I'll end up for most of my shooting but as I mention above, I'm giving AF on the SL2 an honest try.

[nryn]

1 hour ago, etherfarm said:

Scott, I neglected to say that I found your article a wonderful read and it mimics much of the trajectory I've taken over the years.

My goodness, I've done this twice in 24 hours. I meant to address this comment to John Buckley, not Scott. Sorry!

I'm going to blame it on all the blinking holiday lights...

[Leicaiste]

2 hours ago, etherfarm said:

That's a little hard for me to read after the purchase of an SL2 + several lenses and decades of Leica gear and photography. In other words, I've made quite a few donations to the church and attend services regularly. But point taken, and apologies if feathers were ruffled.

I am sorry I missed that you were talking about your faith and the only true way of worshiping.
😉

[nryn]

31 minutes ago, Leicaiste said:

I am sorry I missed that you were talking about your faith and the only true way of worshiping.
😉

LOL. 

[Neko]

 When I do street photo I often spend several hours walking, therefore light is important. I use  hyperfocal focusing (the fastest focus technique). I have been using several cameras for street (Canon DSLR, Hasselbald 503c ...) recently I purchased the SL2 and gave it a try in the streets too. So far my favorite combo is my Monochrom 1+ 50 APO or 35 lux FLE. Compact, light, does no scare people (for most is like you are caring your grandfather camera..) , superb IQ and super fast ( zone focus ).Nevertheless the SL2 is a magnificent camera but I use it mostly for studio, macro and landscape photography.

 

[Chaemono]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb Neko:

 When I do street photo I often spend several hours walking, therefore light is important. I use  hyperfocal focusing (the fastesSo far my favorite combo is my Monochrom 1+ 50 APO or 35 lux FLE. Compact, light, does no scare people (for most is like you are caring your grandfather camera..) , superb IQ and super fast ( zone focus ).

+1.  And what stranger would mind to be photographed with grandpa’s camera.  

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