SL2 EVF Mag issue... (Digiloyd)

[Donzo98]

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8 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Yup, it seems like photonc is taking it from here. It'll help him increase his post count. 🤣

I am very surprised how rude your posts are honestly... 

The guy is just trying to report his findings. He should be able to do that without such condescending responses. 

Oh well... it is what it is. 

 

[Chaemono]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Donzo98:

I am very surprised how rude your posts are honestly... 

The guy is just trying to report his findings. He should be able to do that without such condescending responses. 

Oh well... it is what it is. 

 

Think of social media forums like virtual ORs where med tech sales reps assist in performing digital lobotomy.  Maybe that’ll help you understand.  If not, just see the last sentence in post #46.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Chaemono

[Donzo98]

27 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Think of social media forums like virtual ORs where med tech sales reps assist in performing digital lobotomy.  Maybe that’ll help you understand.  If not, just see the last sentence in post #46.

So... he’s just outright wrong, or making it up?? 

Seems to me this place should be more civil. 
 

[Chaemono]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Donzo98:

Seems to me this place should be more civil. 

Yes, I agree.  Maybe if we close our eyes and click our heels together three times, the social media marketing will go away. 😁

[Donzo98]

3 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Yes, I agree.  Maybe if we close our eyes and click our heels together three times, the social media marketing will go away. 😁

I don’t see any marketing happening here...

Just forum banter... and a little bit of bullying.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Donzo98

[Chaemono]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Donzo98:

I don’t see any marketing happening here...

Ok, it’s the last sentence in #46 then, I’m afraid. 

[thighslapper]

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mmm.... I have some doubts about the initial statements made here and the digilloyd references .....

For starters the maximum S1R image magnification is x6 ......... so I'm not clear where the x9 comes from in the initial post.

Also ...... I have just tried my noctilux on my S1R at 0.95 and both magnification and peaking work perfectly and the resulting image is pin sharp, so both Lloyd and the other user he quotes appear to be talking crap...... or they are doing something different to me. 

x9 magnification for manual focussing is overkill, and unless a high res jpg is used to render the EVF image it is always going to look soft. 

It is not clear to me whether we are talking about actual technical deficiencies or unmet expectations ??? 

I hesitate to say it .....but if you want an optimum SL/SL2 experience then you really need to use the lenses that were actually designed for the camera ...... 

[Guest BlackBarn]

1 hour ago, Donzo98 said:

Glad to see you  I needed someone to take the gun fire with me... 

Plenty of people would take the ‘gun fire’ with you...me for one. Not technically certain if there is a single ‘right’ opinion however I can see no reason for the response to be over ‘aggressive’ on something as inconsequential as cameras.

I am staying with my SL1 but really enjoying seeing the photos from the SL2. More to do with how the respective photographers are utilising the additional features for interpreting and enhancing what they see.....accentuating the drift away from the human eye towards the mechanical.

[ron777]

26 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

mmm.... I have some doubts about the initial statements made here and the digilloyd references .....

For starters the maximum S1R image magnification is x6 ......... so I'm not clear where the x9 comes from in the initial post.

Also ...... I have just tried my noctilux on my S1R at 0.95 and both magnification and peaking work perfectly and the resulting image is pin sharp, so both Lloyd and the other user he quotes appear to be talking crap...... or they are doing something different to me. 

x9 magnification for manual focussing is overkill, and unless a high res jpg is used to render the EVF image it is always going to look soft. 

It is not clear to me whether we are talking about actual technical deficiencies or unmet expectations ??? 

I hesitate to say it .....but if you want an optimum SL/SL2 experience then you really need to use the lenses that were actually designed for the camera ...... 

Of late, I have been an infrequent contributor to this forum, but I couldn't help but relate to and respond to the above post.  I agree wholeheartedly.  I do not use "M" lenses, but with the proper L mount lenses(Leica SL, Panasonic Lumix S, Sigma 35mm F/1.2) attached to my S1r, focus magnification, even at its maximum, works quite well (not the least bit blurry), as does focus peaking and, in concert with your own experience, the resultant images are tack sharp.  I must admit that although I do not use .jpg images, habitually discarding them in favor of raw, I have the camera set to jpg large/fine.

Edited November 24, 2019 by ron777

[photonc]

19 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

mmm.... I have some doubts about the initial statements made here and the digilloyd references .....

For starters the maximum S1R image magnification is x6 ......... so I'm not clear where the x9 comes from in the initial post.

Also ...... I have just tried my noctilux on my S1R at 0.95 and both magnification and peaking work perfectly and the resulting image is pin sharp, so both Lloyd and the other user he quotes appear to be talking crap...... or they are doing something different to me. 

x9 magnification for manual focussing is overkill, and unless a high res jpg is used to render the EVF image it is always going to look soft. 

It is not clear to me whether we are talking about actual technical deficiencies or unmet expectations ??? 

I hesitate to say it .....but if you want an optimum SL/SL2 experience then you really need to use the lenses that were actually designed for the camera ...... 

You might want to check your S1R settings. The maximum magnification is 20X. You are correct when using a 50mm with a subject at closer distances, the EVF at 4X is more than adequate for nailing critical focus. The problem present itself with subjects that are further away. 9X magnification is essential for wider angle/landscape work and other applications. If other cameras can handle 9X+ magnification detail, why would it be unreasonable to expect that the SL2 could also accommodate this magnification? Regarding lenses, the issue is the same if I am using my 24-90 SL, M-Glass or any glass for that matter. 

[BernardC]

To be fair, the only link provided to the Lloyd site was an answer to a reader email. He states that focus peaking is not suitable for critical work. That's hardly a bold statement, and it applies to all cameras. There may be more info in his subscriber-only content, I wouldn't know.

[ron777]

6 minutes ago, photonc said:

You might want to check your S1R settings. The maximum magnification is 20X. You are correct when using a 50mm with a subject at closer distances, the EVF at 4X is more than adequate for nailing critical focus. The problem present itself with subjects that are further away. 9X magnification is essential for wider angle/landscape work and other applications. If other cameras can handle 9X+ magnification detail, why would it be unreasonable to expect that the SL2 could also accommodate this magnification? Regarding lenses, the issue is the same if I am using my 24-90 SL, M-Glass or any glass for that matter. 

"Regarding lenses, the issue is the same if I am using my 24-90 SL, M-Glass or any glass for that matter. " I own the SL24-90 and have had no such experience with focus magnification with that, or any other L mount lens that I own in regards to the S1r.  I do not have superior vision, so how can we explain this variation in user experience?  Furthermore, I own and use a GFX100 that I am told incorporates the same EVF and there have been no such issues of that nature.

Edited November 24, 2019 by ron777

[photonc]

2 minutes ago, BernardC said:

To be fair, the only link provided to the Lloyd site was an answer to a reader email. He states that focus peaking is not suitable for critical work. That's hardly a bold statement, and it applies to all cameras. There may be more info in his subscriber-only content, I wouldn't know.

There is this one too, although not a complete article either. https://diglloyd.com/prem/s/LMOUNT/PanasonicL/PanasonicS1R-LiveView.html?dglyPT=true

[photonc]

1 minute ago, ron777 said:

"Regarding lenses, the issue is the same if I am using my 24-90 SL, M-Glass or any glass for that matter. " I own the SL24-90 and have had no such experience with focus magnification with that, or any other L mount lens that I own.  I do not have superior vision, so how can we explain this variation in user experience?

Are you using it at 24mm at 9X magnification on a subject that is not extremely close? 

[ron777]

9 minutes ago, photonc said:

Are you using it at 24mm at 9X magnification on a subject that is not extremely close? 

I guess the answer would require a definition of "extremely close."  But to reply in part, I do go as high 9X mag on the S1r when needed.  On second thought, during my testing phase of a new Sigma 35mm F/1.2, I had used maximum focus magnification to determine sharpness on distant palm fronds—the distance of from  one side of a golf course to another--and I had not encountered anything other than sharp palm fronds in the EVF.  The resultant image, viewed at 100% mag on a large monitor screen, was tack sharp; great lens, BTW.

Edited November 24, 2019 by ron777

[jrp]

If you look a DL’s articles, he always finds a flaw in any gear — camera, mac, etc — it doesn’t mean that it isn’t real, but it also may not matter. It’s just part of his business model.

The EVF doesn’t magnify well in the dark. So?

[photonc]

2 minutes ago, jrp said:

If you look a DL’s articles, he always finds a flaw in any gear — camera, mac, etc — it doesn’t mean that it isn’t real, but it also may not matter. It’s just part of his business model.

The EVF doesn’t magnify well in the dark. So?

Agreed - It doesn't perform as well as other camera EVF's at higher magnification in the dark or daylight. It is what it is. Just my observation based on my experience with the camera. Your experience could vary due to distance from subject and magnification required. It also might not be an issue that is even applicable to some users depending on what and how they shoot.

If possible, I hope it can be addressed with firmware. That's all.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Well I thought I'd have a look, even though I won't be using M lenses often on the SL2. I quickly compared to my Z7, A9, A7R3, SL, and S1R. I do not own a A7RIV.

The S1R and SL2 images are definitely not as crisp as the same magnification in the lower res finders. OTOH I had no issue achieving consistent critical focus with any of them at any distance. Nor did I feel it was easier or more difficult or faster or slower on each of the cameras.

The only thing I came away with is why didn't Leica include the option of a picture in picture magnification like Fujifilm does?

Storm in a teacup, me thinks.

Gordon 

[thighslapper]

1 hour ago, photonc said:

You might want to check your S1R settings. The maximum magnification is 20X. You are correct when using a 50mm with a subject at closer distances, the EVF at 4X is more than adequate for nailing critical focus. The problem present itself with subjects that are further away. 9X magnification is essential for wider angle/landscape work and other applications. If other cameras can handle 9X+ magnification detail, why would it be unreasonable to expect that the SL2 could also accommodate this magnification? Regarding lenses, the issue is the same if I am using my 24-90 SL, M-Glass or any glass for that matter. 

I’ve  only ever used ‘windowed mode’ on my S1R that maxes out at x6. Anything above that apparently uses full screen, which I have never had any occasion or need to use. Irrespective of the SL2 issues I am still highly dubious about extrapolating from S1R problems that no one else seems to have encountered. Hopefully I can run some direct SL2/S1R comparisons this week and see for myself what all the fuss is about.....

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[photonc]

41 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Well I thought I'd have a look, even though I won't be using M lenses often on the SL2. I quickly compared to my Z7, A9, A7R3, SL, and S1R. I do not own a A7RIV.

The S1R and SL2 images are definitely not as crisp as the same magnification in the lower res finders. OTOH I had no issue achieving consistent critical focus with any of them at any distance. Nor did I feel it was easier or more difficult or faster or slower on each of the cameras.

The only thing I came away with is why didn't Leica include the option of a picture in picture magnification like Fujifilm does?

Storm in a teacup, me thinks.

Gordon 

Glad you are able to quickly compare. Agreed it might be a non-issue for many depending on use.

Aren't most modern camera issues a storm in a teacup 😂