Noctilux 50/1.0 versions 1, 2 and 3 (What are the differences)

[phototrope]

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Hello

Can you help me understand the differences  between the Noctilux 50/1.0 versions 1, 2 and 3 ?  I have an opportunity to buy one of them, and trying to decide which. 

I am NOT interested in the 50/1.0 v4 or the 50/0.95

So, as far as I can see, these are the differences

1. v1 is E58,  v2 and v3 are E60
2. There is a rumour that the v1 vignettes more with filters because of the smaller diameter. (Really?)

Does anybody know of any other differences? Any differences in coating, for example?

Also, what exactly makes the v3 an upgrade to the v2? 

Thanks

Edited October 20, 2019 by phototrope

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[a.noctilux]

As very long time user of Noctilux 1.0, I can say that there is only one type of Noctilux 1.0.

As long as the optical is the same along it's long life with changes only in the mount, E58 is the first most compact (relatively of course), E60 with or without sliding hood.

1. Versions depending on sources, some says the first Noctilux is the 1.2/50 asph. which is not the same Noctilux as we all know

Informations from Leica in .pdf

More infos in Wiki (with some links)

2. In my use, the huge "natural vignetting" in first three apertures (1, 1.4, 2 ) always present 😉 with or without filter in E58 or E60 model

Never saw any difference in coating in E58 or E60

The coating from start is so effective that any further "better coating" is not necessary.

😋

Some more practical ideas ( opposed to theorical ... will-be-Nocti-user 😞

As side note, any version of Noctilux 1.0 is good performer, if the user is aware of it's positive or negative properties.

Maybe some older lenses must be calibrated for digital use.

 

As usual, nothing can replace the in field practicing, and practising Noctilux 1.0 may take some hard time.

[phototrope]

@a.noctilux Thanks for answering. 

I'm edging towards the E58 because of the more compact (relatively) size. But what about this other "rumour" that the earlier E58 models used a stiffer lubricant then than the newer E60 models?  Is there anything to that?

[a.noctilux]

There are so many rumours concerning this special(ist) lens that I think those rumours can have some realities and some explanations.

I'll try to point out 😏 not defending the Noctilux, because users must try it out before saying yes or no to keep it.

Stiffness may vary ( I've seen some more or less "stiff focus") when a lens is not in use for a while, the focus ring could become stiffer than a lens in regular use.

Another cause is the very shallow focus ring adding to the long focus throw can lead to the "stiff sensation".

In my use, for precise focussing, I prefer stiffer focus ring (and long travel) to a "loose" ring or too short focus ring travel.

But I accept the other way around for other user if it pleases her/him.

[Ecar]

6 hours ago, phototrope said:

@a.noctilux Thanks for answering. 

I'm edging towards the E58 because of the more compact (relatively) size. But what about this other "rumour" that the earlier E58 models used a stiffer lubricant then than the newer E60 models?  Is there anything to that?

Chances are the lenses have been CLA'd (sometimes more than once) during their lifetime. The original lubricant would then have been replaced anyway, most likely with a different one. Therefore, I wouldn't trust rumours or sweeping generalisations in this respect: you can only judge the "stiffness" (or lack thereof) by actually using a particular lens.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Ecar

[a5m]

Based on my experience, best advice is that if wide open sharpness is important to you, then try all the copies available to you and pick the best one. I've had all the different versions except the v2, and while the E58 is the smallest and most compact, the size difference is really neglible. I'd place more importance on sharpness. Good copies exist, so don't just accept they're all soft and put your focus on other things.

My E58 which I've kept because it is very sharp, sharper than my 50 Summilux E46, was initially a bit stiff. I read about the stiffer lubricant thing too, and it might be true. My copy was from a collector so didn't see much use either. After turning it only a few times it smoothed out and loosened up, and is pretty decent now. I think I'll still send it to Wetzlar for service. I've read someone had to send it there after multiple attempts by Leica NJ to get the feel right.

E58 vignettes more. I've done side by side comparisons with the v3. This was without filters, I imagine it will only be exacerbated with one. Still, not that big of a difference to disregard the E58. Plus for this kind of lens vignetting isn't really an issue, at least not for me. I actually like vignetting and at times have added it in post.

The v2 and v3 are the most similar; only difference being the way the hood attaches. On the v2 it's a bayonet that you twist on, just like the E58, but on the v3 it clips on and can be reversed on the lens for storage. Others can't do that.

Best scenario would be the E58 turns out to be the sharpest. It'll be sharp and useable wide open, smallest of all the versions, and hold it's value really well. From what I've seen their prices are shooting up as they seem to be nearing collector status.

Hope that helps

[phototrope]

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@a5m Yes, that helps a great deal. Thank you very much.

[jimbn]

On 10/20/2019 at 11:36 PM, phototrope said:

@a.noctilux Thanks for answering. 

I'm edging towards the E58 because of the more compact (relatively) size. But what about this other "rumour" that the earlier E58 models used a stiffer lubricant then than the newer E60 models?  Is there anything to that?

 

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1197/5000

 

 

 

My experience concerns one of the very very first 58 copies from 1975. The lens received the 6-bit coding at Leica and the accompanying revision. The rings run smoothly completely comparable to a recent 50lux chrome. Everything is said in this forum about image quality, character, vignetting, and almost everything is true. All in all, the application of the lens is limited to the very low light situations such as twilight, candlelight, fireworks, theater performances etc. Everyone makes their own assessment, but the lens is without a doubt a phenomenon. You know what you are looking for. Please note that the fit of the loose 12519 lens hood is so narrow that only the very thin B&W XS-pro filters fit in between. A useful alternative is a screw-in lens made from Chinese made of a few dollars. The use of a filter other than to protect the front lens is not obvious in the typical application of this lens. That 12519 lens hood is often not included and is extremely scarce and therefore expensive. I paid € 450 a few years ago but saw more than double on Ebay. The lens itself longer ago was € 2250. It is the only lens that I do not sell, not even to finance my funeral.

 

 

 

 

 

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[phototrope]

Thanks for all your help and advice. I bought a Noctilux E58 over the weekend. It's in mint condition, boxed, and recently CLA'd and 6-bit encoded.

(A considerable amount of red wine was consumed during the transaction).

Edited November 4, 2019 by phototrope