*4* New Summarits

[jaapv]

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I agree with Wilson. Exit the 2.8/90 and 2.8/50 collapsible.....

[wlaidlaw]

I agree with Wilson. Exit the 2.8/90 and 2.8/50 collapsible.....

 

Just thinking about it again, I am pretty sure about the exit of the 90/2.8, as there is no logic to keeping this one going, on the assumption that the new Summarit will be better and only fractionally more expensive new but Leica might keep the little Elmar going for historical/emotional reasons. It cannot make them much money at the price they sell it, although it is not very well put together. I would guess it spends more time on my M8 than any of my other 6 lenses.

 

Wilson

[marknorton]

I would miss the collapsible hood of the 90/2.8. I wonder how the hoods attach to the new lenses, screw-in or yet another clamping arrangement?

[sean_reid]

I think it is safe to assume that build-quality will be equal to the current M lens line-up, which is to say excellent and vastly superior to CV and to a lesser degree Zeiss.

 

Hi Jack,

 

I'm not sure about "vastly superior". The Zeiss lenses and many of the CV lenses are pretty well made.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[budrichard]

These are Consumer lenses designed for digital cameras. They will not have the quality of lenses designed for film but since most digital for Consumers revolves around the 'Net, high quality is not needed. A lower priced digital M body will shortly accompany these lenses. Consumers will pay for a camera Body with a name but will not pay $$ for high quality lenses. Look at Nikon for example.

-Dick

[stunsworth]

These are Consumer lenses designed for digital cameras. They will not have the quality of lenses designed for film but since most digital for Consumers revolves around the 'Net, high quality is not needed.

 

The first sentence is an assumption, and so is the second to be honest. Perhaps it would be better to see some samples and reviews of the lenses before drawing too many conclusions.

[sean_reid]

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These are Consumer lenses designed for digital cameras. They will not have the quality of lenses designed for film but since most digital for Consumers revolves around the 'Net, high quality is not needed. A lower priced digital M body will shortly accompany these lenses. Consumers will pay for a camera Body with a name but will not pay $$ for high quality lenses. Look at Nikon for example.

-Dick

 

There's no such thing as a "consumer lens". Its a fiction created by marketing departments and some reviewers. As to the rest, I'd caution people to hold off on making pronouncements about lenses they've never seen, tested, worked with, etc.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[wlaidlaw]

I would miss the collapsible hood of the 90/2.8. I wonder how the hoods attach to the new lenses, screw-in or yet another clamping arrangement?

 

I agree Mark. The 90/2.8 has a great hood. It makes my Noctilux hood seem crude and shabby.

 

Wilson

[ho_co]

Thanks Howard , I can't say what i would like to say.

Guy--

First, we all knew what you meant; and second--you're a perfect politician, a perfect Martin Greenspan: Whatever the facts turn out to be, you can say "I told you so!"

 

--HC

[sdai]

Folks, now you can download the sample shots of three new Summarits except the 35.

 

Leica Camera AG - Downloads

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Check this out

 

Leica Camera AG - Photography - Summarit-M Lenses

[ho_co]

I don't know about that. It seems pretty out of line to me. The 35 f2.5 is 1250 Euros which is $1700. Plus the IR filter. A Canon 35 f2 is about $220. For $1619 one could get a 16-35 f2.8 AF model II which would be a lot more useful to many shooters.

Alan--

I see your point and I may be wrong, but I don't think I expressed myself well.

 

I'm more familiar with Nikon than with Canon, but I think this applies about equally to both: Canon and Nikon have the cheapie, low-end lenses, say $100-$500. Then they have a middle grade, a little better made with more features, not bad for the money but still not great optics, at around $500 to $1000. And then you start getting into the top grade equipment at $1000-$2000, followed by the specialty items over $2000.

 

If that's so, Canon and Nikon users are used to seeing the excellent lenses in their lines in the $1000-$2000 price range. The lenses are there and available, whether the user decides to buy them or not.

 

Now Leica comes along with lenses in the same price range. Leica is known for excellent optics, and their introductory line's pricing is now in line with the general-use high end of Canon and Nikon. There's no one-to-one comparison; you're dealing rangefinder to SLR, and you're dealing Leica to 'the others.'

 

As long as my brand's extreme specialty lenses are priced the same as the general-purpose lenses Leica offers, it's going to be hard for me to consider seriously why anyone would pay that much for those lenses. Seeing Leica's low-end offerings coincide with my brand's good-quality lenses will give me the ability to glance sideways.

 

--HC

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Pretty much says it all right there. superb price/performance ratio.

 

Not sure why some folks don't get it. There offering a line that is affordable to the end user and a market that leica never could

 

 

 

 

 

It is the lenses on which the legend of the Leica brand was founded. Finely crafted masterpieces - compact and practical precision optics for analog and digital photography.

 

 

With the Leica Summarit-M class of lenses, Leica maintains its tradition of producing lenses that are renowned for optical and mechanical excellence. The new family consists of four lenses and covers the most popular focal lengths in the Leica M system:

 

LEICA SUMMARIT-M 35 mm f/2.5

LEICA SUMMARIT-M 50 mm f/2.5

LEICA SUMMARIT-M 75 mm f/2.5

LEICA SUMMARIT-M 90 mm f/2.5

 

The maximum aperture of f/2.5 and the concentration on the classic and proven spherical lens design leads to a new series of lenses that now brings famous Leica quality and a superb price/performance ratio.

[HetDraakje]

Folks, now you can download the sample shots of three new Summarits except the 35.

 

Leica Camera AG - Downloads

 

 

The Summarit 75 is more and more appealing to me. GAS warning

 

Boen

[artur5]

Just playing a bit the devil's advocate :

Summarit 35/2.5 = 1250 € - Zeiss Biogon 35/2= 900 € - I'll take the Biogon hands down.

Summarit 35/2.5 = 1250 € - C/V Skopar 35/2.5 = 300 € - I'll take the C/V hands down.

Summarit 35/2.5 = 1250 € - Summicron 35/2 ASP =2100 € - I'll take the "cron" hands down.

 

Sure there's market for the Summarits, but not for me, and I hope they just add more choice and don't replace anything. If Leica discontinues the Elmarit 90 that would be a very bad move, just like removing the "lux" 75 or the "MATE"

[Guest guy_mancuso]

There are reasons beyond slow sellers that leica discontinued the 75 lux and MATE . The MATE as i was told there are certain elements in there that they cannot make anymore. The 75 lux maybe a different story but one reason mentioned was a old design. I'm just hoping they replace it with a 75 1.2 Asph

[ho_co]

Interesting, but badly-timed from Leica's perspective, as I've just bought the CV 75mm...

Or badly-timed from your perspective?

 

Who is Puts?

Sean, it's time to let you in on a little secret of this forum. "Puts" is our local designation for a man whose initials are "E.P." The reference, obviously, is to Elvis Presley. Just a forum convention.

 

That's the point that let me a little surprised seeing the announcement: announced NOW, available in at least 4 months... curious marketing strategy..

Good move, though, if the R10 is the bust-out product we expect: Remind us M owners now that we aren't forgotten; then introduce the new R camera, which would have taken our attention and maybe stolen the excitement of the later introduction of the Summarits.

 

I agree with Wilson. Exit the 2.8/90 and 2.8/50 collapsible.....

Jaap--'exeunt,' not 'exit.'

 

I wonder how the hoods attach to the new lenses, screw-in or yet another clamping arrangement?

Lenses all seem to have the encircling front ring that marks the clamp-on. Just historically, I don't recall any screw-in hoods from Leica. And Zeiss offers their bayonet design--don't want to go against that with screw-ins.

 

--HC

[ericperlberg]

My take on the new set of lenses is that this is just the beginning of an entire rethink of the Leica marketing mix. Here's what I think the Leica roadmap looks like. YMMV of course.

 

My thoughts are that there will be another set of lenses with max f4 or 4.5 which would be yet cheaper (as in less expensive) and smaller/lighter yet maintaining Leica optical and build quality. This may explain the new Leica lens engineer just *after* announcing 4 new lenses. Leica won't actually hit CV's price point IMO but come in at 15-20% higher on these f4 lenses. The new 2.5 lenses put them in a roughly similar position with Zeiss lenses.

 

I think that there won't be a smaller mpx chip in the M8 but that the M8 line will bifurcate in the next 12-18 months with the current 10mpx chip camera dropping considerably in price and a new 16-22mpx chip will be added a la the Hassy H3 series. This chip might be full frame or not depending on how quickly the chip technology matures.

 

At that point Leica will be competing in entirely new price points with a much wider series of options for the punters.

 

New price sensitive Leica purchasers could start with an M8/10mpx and f4.5 prime(s) for about the price of a 5D perhaps and then over time evolve their purchases to include a new body or new faster lenses. Leica doesn't have to compete head on with competition as they can build off their reputation and the advantages of RF to make up the difference. Apple has shown that percieved value and quality can be traded off against a price differential and I think Leica, with their smaller production runs just don't have the option of going head to head with the big 2.

 

New f1.4 fast lenses will be replace the current lenses once the new high res bodies are in place. I personally doubt that Leica will go for 1.3 crop lenses because that a) violates the idea that this is a camera line that will last forever (a powerful incentive IMO and If they did go 1.3 it boxes Leica in to 1.3 crop lenses when 1.3 may only be necessitated as transitional stage in chip development.

 

Another area of development I expect to see is some sort of entirely new small sensor camera from Leica sans Panasonic. I think Steven Lee in his LFI interview made it pretty clear that Leica has to become less reliant on other companies and Panasonic is one company which has become very dominent in Leica's market mix. If Panasonic pulled the plug on Leica, it would be serious if not terminal. But just coming out with a small sensor camera competing against all the other small sensor cameras would just sink Leica if they don't do something to differentiate their own small sensor cam. The answer to my mind is that the Leica small sensor camera will be a "photographers" small sensor camera, ie, it will have manual options including perhaps a rangefinder viewfinder and an LCD back screen which are straight forward to use through levers and knobs rather than menus. It will be the small sensor camera that everyone wants once they realise how crap most small sensor cameras currently are. It will trade mpxs for image quality. Quality and integrity will be Leica's selling points.

 

Lastly, there is the SLR problem. Leica has to come up with a product which challenges Canon and Nikon if its to be successful in the SLR space. That's going to be tricky for Leica. The only thing I can see Leica doing here is making their R lenses with Canon and Nikon mounts. Perhaps Steven Lee has some ideas because as I recall he hinted that the R line was not dead.

 

Well just some ideal business speculation.

[ho_co]

@ Guy--

Has Christian sent you prices?

 

Or have I overlooked them?

 

Curious also about the 4 hoods and their costs.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Joop van Heijgen]

I think that Leicas move is a good one. It will give us even more lenses to choose from and that is always good. The pricing of the new "regular" Leica lenses was going skyhigh, not only because of Leica, but because the dropping $. Even the new Summarit series lenses are going to be pricey in comparison with CV and Zeiss.

As for quality, Leica can not afford to cut too many corners on optical performance. Both Zeiss and CV are nipping at their heels already and in some cases make better lenses than the current premium Leica lens output.

In my estimation, there are really only two superlative Leica lenses at the moment, the 50f1.4 Asph and the 75f2 Asph. The 90 Apo-Asph is a great lens, but if Zeiss gets their act together, they will be aiming for it and Zeiss is good when it counts.

Lenses like the 21/2.8 Asph and the Biogon 21/2,8 are so close that it is a matter of choice what kind of "signature" you want on your image.

The 24/2,8 Asph Elmarit and the 25/2.8 Biogon, again not enough difference in performance to pick one over the other.

28/2 Summicron versus 28/1.9 VC, the Summicron is marginally better in the corners wide open, but center quality is the same.

35/1,4 Asph. Forget it - my 35/2 Planar runs circles around it and it does not flare!

50/2 Summicron, the Planar is better!

 

What Leica will most likely be doing is try to catch some of the "non-Leica" market and also supply the M8 users. They will most likely try to out perform or equal the performance of VC/Zeiss and sell on the name.

What I see missing here is a line of wide to ultra wides. a 15/4 and even a 12mm for the M8. The new 28/2.8 Asph is a step in the right direction, small compact performer at a reasonable price for Leica.

The new Zeiss C Biogon 21/4,5 is one hell of a performer and Leica is going to have to come up with something like that as well as a lens to compete with the 18/4 Distagon that is out next month (at 1/3 of the cost of their 16-18-21 Lens)

I supect that the Summarit's will be coded from start and that all future lenses will be too.

Now, neither CV and Zeiss are going to take this without a fight. Expect to see some new stuff from both in the next 4-6 month. Good for us users and good for the creativity of Leica/CV and Zeiss's designers too.

The next step is a body or bodies ( simplified M film body - the long awaited M2 with a meter built in maybe, selling for $15-1700) and a digital body with an improved viewfinder and selling in the sub-$3000 level.

Whatever happens, it will be exiciting and I am thinking, hmm a 35/2,5 Summarit and a 75/2,5 Summarit would look great in my Christmas stocking. The funny thing is that I already have that package in CV and neither of these two lenses has made me long for something else - they are both damned good and paid for long time ago!

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Tom Abrahamsson

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