*4* New Summarits

[HetDraakje]

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I DID NOT NOTICE IT ! Speaking of DESTINY... with my M8 I ordered an E39 (have number of lenses of this kind) AND an E46... an error I can't explain, I realized that I have no E46 lenses... and thought many times to a 75... there's no story: I now am OBLIGED to buy it ...

 

And then the 1.4/50 ASPH

And then the 1.4/35 ASPH

And then the 2.5/90 or 2.8/90

And then the 2.0/28 ASPH

 

Start walking the very, very slippery slope. For financial purposes, you might as well give the filter away (to me par example )

 

Boen

[StS]

Hey, big news, the brand of our choice is bringing a new lens line having slower speed using even the old look of the 60's. We Leica users are definitely different from the Canonized .

 

Seriously, if the optics are up to the usual standard, these lenses make sense, especially the 35mm and 75mm. The 35mm to give a compact lens, the 75mm, since depth of focus is extremely narrow already for 2.5/75.

[carstenw]

I don't know about that. It seems pretty out of line to me. The 35 f2.5 is 1250 Euros which is $1700. Plus the IR filter. A Canon 35 f2 is about $220. For $1619 one could get a 16-35 f2.8 AF model II which would be a lot more useful to many shooters.

 

And less to others. Personally, after having gone down the 5D + zooms path for a year, I feel that zooms tend to be for most people (aren't always nor for everyone) a laziness trap. You lose in the ultimate picture quality compared to a prime, you lose in speed for the buck, and most importantly, you lose the feel that you develop with primes. Framing with zooms is a totally different thing which tends to discourage walking about to find the best viewpoint.

 

Disciplined photographers won't fall into this trap, but almost everyone else will. Joe average with a zoom will only move around to frame things differently if his 35-100 zoom won't fit in all of the subject.

 

I think it is fine to prefer top quality gear. But for typical photos with many lenses and cameras at around f5.6 or f8, I think you'd have to really look hard and still may not see significant differences. And if there are any differences will these really matter in the photos that most people shoot?

 

Most people, no, certainly not. But there is a difference. Almost all Canon lenses, even many of the most famous like the 85L, have much much more CA than Leica lenses, and as long as we are talking most people, that CA is going to stay in the image. Again, for disciplined pros, it is a different story. The bokeh of the average Leica lens is also more pleasing than for the average L lens, although again, there are certain really good lenses in the Canon lineup where that isn't true.

 

I think Leica has some kind of strategy that I don't quite understand. As Walt said, if they are going to make 4 new lenses, why don't they come out with a series of lenses that are made for the M8 sensor size?

 

This begs the question--and don't get me wrong, I appreciate your contribution here--of why you hang around this forum? There are lots of Canon forums where you could hang around and discuss your equipment. Am I remembering correctly that you don't currently use any Leica equipment? Something is keeping you here, and I am curious what it is.

 

They seem to be selling everything they make so they must know their market, but I don't think a whole new crop of users is going to appear because they now can buy a slow 35mm or 50mm for $1400-$1700.

 

I don't think so either. What will happen, however, is that it will stem the tide of people who buy a Leica M8 and then a stable of Voigtländer and Zeiss lenses. Brilliant!

[TimF]

rsh wrote

 

Leica does have a future, just not film. I really believe that current line of fast lenses has no future as they were designed for film. All new lenses from now onwill be designed with digital in mind. The focus shift problem many of you complain about, but I have not experienced will be dealt with in the new lenses.

 

Also, with the ability to change ISO in Digital Cameras, lens speed is less an important factor than with film.

In case you've forgotten, there's more reasons than just low light for someone to prefer a faster lens.

 

Regards.

[stunsworth]

I don't know about that. It seems pretty out of line to me...

 

Alan, the comparison to consumer Nikons also applies to the bodies as well. Leicas are expensive, they're not going to rival a Nikon or Canon body as far as price is concerned in the foreseeable future. Even their film cameras were much more expensive that the far eastern counterparts. It's just the way it is.

[HetDraakje]

Based on the specs provided by Leica and the website mentioned:

 

Differences between the new and competing lenses except for the obvious character of the lens

 

35mm: Summarit vs. Summicron ASPH

6/4 vs. 7/5 elements/groups;

220 vs. 255 gr;

34 vs. 34.5 mm. length;

51.4 vs. 53 mm diameter;

0.8 vs. 0.7 m. min focus distance;

1250 vs. 2000 euro

 

50 mm: Summarit vs. Summicron vs. Elmar

6/4 vs. 6/4 vs. 4/3 elements/groups;

230 vs. 240 vs. 170 gr;

33 vs. 43.5 vs. 21.6/37.6 (working position/collapsed) mm. length;

51.5 vs. 53 vs. 52 mm diameter;

0.8 vs. 0.7 vs. 0.7 m. minimal focus distance;

1000 vs. 1350 vs. 850 euro

 

75 mm: Summarit vs. APO Summicron ASPH

6/4 vs. 7/5 elements/groups;

345 vs. 430 gr;

60.5 vs. 66.8 mm. length;

55 vs. 58 mm diameter;

0.9 vs. 0.7 m. min focus distance;

46E vs 49E filter size

1250 vs. 2300 euro

 

90mm: Summarit vs. Elmarit vs. Macro Elmar

5/4 vs. 4/4 vs. 4/4 elements/groups;

360 vs. 410 vs. 240 gr;

66.5 vs. 76 vs. 59/41 (working position/collapsed) mm. length;

55 vs. 56.5 vs. 52 mm diameter;

1 vs. 1 vs. 0.77 m. minimal focus distance;

46E vs. 46E vs. 39E filter size

1250 vs. 1700 vs. 1350 euro

 

Statistics based opinion: It is a lot cheaper (however hoods are not included, except the elmar 50/90. There is not a lot of difference in size. Weight is less (10-20%) but not a lot. There seem to be a redundancy in the 50 mm where the differences are very small. Also the 90mm elmarit seems redundant (faster, lighter and cheaper)

 

For me, next to my summilux 75, I see also a summarit 75 coming

 

Boen

[Mark Pope]

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Interesting, but badly-timed from Leica's perspective, as I've just bought the CV 75mm...

[Guest Austerby]

Bad news for me, I recently bought a 75/2 - could have bought two of these new ones for that price... The 75 Summicron is a wonderful lens, but I don't expect this new Summarit to be shabby.

[Theodor Heinrichsohn]

Somewhere in between, I bet. Like the 50 Cron and 90 Elmarit. Emphasis on nice drawing rather than bleeding-edge performance.

 

I have said this a couple of months ago already, but when I read the interview with Stephen K. Lee in LFI, I got the distinct feeling that we have been witness to Leica's technological peak, and that in the future, the emphasis will be somewhere other than the absolute "best" lenses according to some very technical definition. During the Hermes years, it seems that the marketing department was selling Leica cameras partly as accessories, with Leica-á-la-carte and so on, whereas the technical department went further and further in this excellence-no-matter-the-cost. I don't think it will continue in this direction.

 

Carsten, I agree with you based on the results I recall using the Leica Minilux with its Summarit 1: 2.4 / 40mm.

I do hope that your prediction that Leica's "technological peak" has passed is proven wrong! I recall talking to Lothar Koelsch and congratulating him on the quality of the lenses designed and produced during his tenure. Karbe has continued that tradition. The Mandler designs have that "buttery" optical fingerprint, while drawing sharply, which I appreciate. The newest asphericals are more contrasty and I am sometimes unable to get the many pastel shades that I like in some pictures.

In any case, I am curious about the actual performance on slides and on the M8 that the new designs produce.

Bye the way, I greatly enjoy your posts on the Elmar 35 and the comparisons with the other Leica 35's. You find the 35/ 3.5 Summaron to be "too" good for a vintage lens. I have it and the 2.8 Summaron as well and the latter is even better. At mid f stops, it is even better than the 35/2 ist version in my experience on Kodachrome. So the 35 Elmar in my opinion is the ideal choice for your purposes - as you have determined yourself.

Teddy

[rosuna]

I expect a fenomenal rendition from these lenses. Classical Double-Gauss symmetric designs with 6 elements. The Summicron-M 50mm is a good example. I am intrigued by the comparison between the Summicron and the Summarit 50mm.

 

The Elmarit 28mm ASPH is another lens belonging to this new family of affordable lenses. The shorter the focal length, the more difficult is to correct aberrations. Therefore, Elmarit and Elmar lenses (f/2.8 f/3.5 f/4) will be the cheaper models for 28mm and below. The Elmarit 28mm ASPH has sold very, very well, and it is a great lens. The new family will be superb performers.

 

The discount scheme is another great idea. "Buy a kit and save money!". I would add the Elmarit 28mm ASPH to the offer.

 

New lenses in the "expensive" line are possible. I would like to see a new Noctilux ASPH, for instance.

[MP3]

Come on, David. You still have APO and excellent close up owing to 75/2's floating elements =) Cheers

[tom0511]

Carsten, there's a €500 discount if you buy all 4... €4250.

 

I'm wondering whether these lenses are another reason for the MATE's demise. The 28/2.8, 35/2.5 and 50/2.5 give you at least a stop extra speed for only a little more. Figure 1400+1250+1000-155 = €3495, just €500 more than the MATE, good value for an extra Leica stop/stop and a half.

 

yes, but the biggest advantage of the mate is, that you do not have to change lenses.

[wlaidlaw]

Seeing these new lenses makes me very glad I bought a nearly new 90/2.8 Elmarit and a new Elmar-M 50 collapsible. I cannot imagine these lenses will stay long in the catalogue now.

 

Wilson

[stunsworth]

I agree Wilson, those are the two lenses I'd expect to disappear if any are.

 

That 90 looks lempting, but perhaps it's best to wait for some reviews before jumping to conclusions about image quality <grin>.

 

Can I ask the mods again, if it's possible to merge the two threads dedicated to the new lenses as I think there will be a lot of responses and it would be nice to have everything in one thread.

[HetDraakje]

Can I ask the mods again, if it's possible to merge the two threads dedicated to the new lenses as I think there will be a lot of responses and it would be nice to have everything in one thread.

 

Excellent that this topic has been merged, but as the new lenses are supposed to work also on film M, why is it then that this is a M8 topic

 

Boen

 

Wow, just blinked my eyes and the topic has been moved, Kudos

[andybarton]

We aim to please

[sean_reid]

you (and Sean and others) have posted about Leica's financial needs.

 

I did?

[sean_reid]

...Präzisionsoptiken für die Analog- und Digitalfotografie...

 

I do not read well German... but the announcement quotes rather clearly film cameras too... let's wait to look at the performances (Puts shall have his glorious chance ); I anyway agree that surely, and obviously, the main target is M8 users.

 

Who is Puts?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Hi Sean

 

You're going to be real busy appending your reviews with these newbies.

Compactness is an advantage, but the most important thing is how thay draw.

 

Cheers

 

I'll cover them in separate reviews, for the sake of simplicity, but I will test all of them. They'll be no graphs but lots of comparison pictures. <G>

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[rosuna]

Don't be bad, Sean.

 

Erwin Puts. I expect to see a detailed analysis from him.

 

R.