Serial number starting point for dust fix for Q?

[_Michael]

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Hi all, I am considering a preowned Q, and wonder if there is a specific serial number a camera should be at or above to have the factory fix for dust. Is that known? One in particular I am looking at has 1 spec visible when shot stopped all the way down.  I don’t think that is terribly bad because I’ve also seen plenty of images from the camera at more typical 1.7 - 8 and I cannot see anything. 

[Miltz]

This is be hard to find, I've never heard of it before being made public. 

[lucerne]

15 hours ago, _Michael said:

Hi all, I am considering a preowned Q, and wonder if there is a specific serial number a camera should be at or above to have the factory fix for dust. Is that known? One in particular I am looking at has 1 spec visible when shot stopped all the way down.  I don’t think that is terribly bad because I’ve also seen plenty of images from the camera at more typical 1.7 - 8 and I cannot see anything. 

Buy one less than three years old. It should be an improved build..  Check it carefully and if necessary, get it cleaned under warranty by Leica.  

[JimBo]

Look for a QP - those should all be very late production.

[nicci78]

Sorry, but they are all prone to dust. The camera is not sealed. Every non weather and dusproof compact camera will suffer from sensor dust, one day. Just put 400€ aside and 6 weeks turn around time every 2 to 3 years for sensor cleaning. 

 

[lucerne]

I might agree with you Nikki, and that’s why i will not own one any more.  However, the Q was slightly improved when the problem was first reported and the Q2 was improved further.  That’s why the lens is slightly larger.  Having a sensor clean every few months (when the problem appears), and when you are travelling is ridiculous, and continually returning it to leica for a paid clean that takes anything from one to 6 weeks is very expensive. The viewfinder is also sensitive to dust.   You cant plan a dust problem.  It will happen at any time.  Eventually, all Q models will become bricks..   Always carry a detachable lens camera is my best advice. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by lucerne

[Leica Guy]

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4 hours ago, lucerne said:

I might agree with you Nikki, and that’s why i will not own one any more.  However, the Q was slightly improved when the problem was first reported and the Q2 was improved further.  That’s why the lens is slightly larger.  Having a sensor clean every few months (when the problem appears), and when you are travelling is ridiculous, and continually returning it to leica for a paid clean that takes anything from one to 6 weeks is very expensive. The viewfinder is also sensitive to dust.   You cant plan a dust problem.  It will happen at any time.  Eventually, all Q models will become bricks..   Always carry a detachable lens camera is my best advice. 

Isabel, What have you evolved to shooting now? It seems to me that more so than the previous film cameras all of our electronic / sensor based cameras will end up on a shelf or as you say “bricks”. It’s a price we pay for the rapidly advancing technology I suppose. I’ve noted all the excitement of the M9 being 10 years old. 10 years is a long time with any product in today’s rapidly changing world.  Apparently the M9 is still an excellent camera with a unique CCD sensor. Four years of using a Q/Q2 and no dust issues for me. If it happens, I’ll live with it for awhile. Certainly LR and PS are excellent at removing spots. Perhaps Leica needs a cleaning technology / process in-camera like my DSLR has. The capabilities of the Q/Q2 are so compelling that they overcome the negatives such as dust invasion. 

[lucerne]

Leica guy.    Who is Isabel?  Are you confused.😀

I'm Gordon. Aka Lucerne. 

I’m using an M10 and nothing else.  

[DaleG]

But Leica Guy raises a very significant point:  will all digital Leicas slowly (or not so slowly) decline in value and functionality - eventually morphing into useless paperweights?  IMHO, that's not a small or insignificant question.

My M3 was made in 1957 - 62 years ago.  When CLA'd by Youxin Ye in 2016, it functioned as well as ever, and continues to do so. What's the likelihood of my recently acquired Q-P still performing in another 60 years?  Cause for pause?  Think about it.

Today, I find myself seriously considering the purchase of a Leica M10 or M10-P.  Then I look at the "bargain" sales prices of the earlier M8/8.2 and M9 - and the corrosion and other problems and the cost and ability to effectively service them.  To date, I've not pulled the trigger.  I may yet or I may not.  Don't know.

Lately I've been thinking - more and more - about maybe adding a less expensive M8/9 along with an M-P and applying remaining funds toward a good lens. 

The digital arena seems anything but stable and predictable.  Not sure how effective Leica will be competing against the ubiquitous iPhonies.

[lucerne]

41 minutes ago, DaleG said:

But Leica Guy raises a very significant point:  will all digital Leicas slowly (or not so slowly) decline in value and functionality - eventually morphing into useless paperweights?  IMHO, that's not a small or insignificant question.

My M3 was made in 1957 - 62 years ago.  When CLA'd by Youxin Ye in 2016, it functioned as well as ever, and continues to do so. What's the likelihood of my recently acquired Q-P still performing in another 60 years?  Cause for pause?  Think about it.

Today, I find myself seriously considering the purchase of a Leica M10 or M10-P.  Then I look at the "bargain" sales prices of the earlier M8/8.2 and M9 - and the corrosion and other problems and the cost and ability to effectively service them.  To date, I've not pulled the trigger.  I may yet or I may not.  Don't know.

Lately I've been thinking - more and more - about maybe adding a less expensive M8/9 along with an M-P and applying remaining funds toward a good lens. 

The digital arena seems anything but stable and predictable.  Not sure how effective Leica will be competing against the ubiquitous iPhonies.

Dale.

you are recognising the problem facing the maintenance and life of digital bodies. Leica reputably  maintains spares for 10 years but that is not very long compared to pre-digital bodies.     Rather than wait for failure, my strategy is to use a body in its guaranteed period.  Additionally, I wouldn’t store old digital camera bodies indefinitely.  If it isn’t needed, or if money spent is written off, trade it in or sell it.    Also bear in mind that lithium batteries have a limited life.  Will they continue to be available for old models?   Given the shortage of batteries for the new Q2, (and no alternative suppliers), will they be available in 10 years time, and will you be able to remove the excellent Summilux lens and redeploy it on another body.   We are back to the “brick” scenario. 

A digital Leica isn’t an investment.  Use it to its maximum then move on.

be prepared to quickly lose money during ownership but hopefully earn money from it during its useful life.  No problem for professionals but very expensive (but very satisfying)  for amateurs.

your M9 strategy is a good value /low cost of ownership option.  However, it won’t last for 60 years.  

finally, the next iPhones are going to be serious contenders for use by street photographers. 

good luck.

Edited September 16, 2019 by lucerne

[zampelis]

All the electronic devices produced today, even some of the most exotic ones, are doomed of tin whisker failure.. The dust on the sensor is a detail compared to the doom we will all face in some years! Also I, personally wouldn't consider any camera that has been bought with the intention to be used as a tool as a long term investment.. Even the film ones, at some point will be useless if the production of film stops - or becomes such a niche market that the film prices skyrocket.. On the other hand, you can always buy a film camera and leave it unopened in the box, for decades in order to be sold as a historical relic rather as a tool... But still, the value of it will be a gamble..

As for the dust, isn't there any vibration or ultrasound device that can reduce it? 

Edited September 16, 2019 by zampelis

[Daedalus2000]

On 9/15/2019 at 12:41 AM, _Michael said:

Hi all, I am considering a preowned Q, and wonder if there is a specific serial number a camera should be at or above to have the factory fix for dust. Is that known? One in particular I am looking at has 1 spec visible when shot stopped all the way down.  I don’t think that is terribly bad because I’ve also seen plenty of images from the camera at more typical 1.7 - 8 and I cannot see anything. 

I would also advise you to buy a Q-P. I am not sure if the dust problem has been sorted out but they look so much better than the Q and because they were designed later, if Leica made any improvements they will have them. Also, I think they will hold their value a bit better than the Q. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Daedalus2000

[colonel]

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 7:34 PM, DaleG said:

But Leica Guy raises a very significant point:  will all digital Leicas slowly (or not so slowly) decline in value and functionality - eventually morphing into useless paperweights?  IMHO, that's not a small or insignificant question.

My M3 was made in 1957 - 62 years ago.  When CLA'd by Youxin Ye in 2016, it functioned as well as ever, and continues to do so. What's the likelihood of my recently acquired Q-P still performing in another 60 years?  Cause for pause?  Think about it.

Today, I find myself seriously considering the purchase of a Leica M10 or M10-P.  Then I look at the "bargain" sales prices of the earlier M8/8.2 and M9 - and the corrosion and other problems and the cost and ability to effectively service them.  To date, I've not pulled the trigger.  I may yet or I may not.  Don't know.

Lately I've been thinking - more and more - about maybe adding a less expensive M8/9 along with an M-P and applying remaining funds toward a good lens. 

The digital arena seems anything but stable and predictable.  Not sure how effective Leica will be competing against the ubiquitous iPhonies.

Not entirely true.

M9s and M8s still work fine if kept well.

M8 had LCD issue, M9 had sensor. Later still correctable

M240 was one of Leica's most reliable cameras ever. Its rangefinder is far more sturdy then earlier models, inc. M6, M7 , etc.

However there are components that can't be replaced, so long term the mechanical cameras can be continually fixed but digitals can die

The issue with film of course is the long term existance of film ....

In terms of price, good analogue cameras are of course likely to retain they cost, unless film goes into serious drop off

The way I look at it is to buy what you want and use it now. Otherwise you wait for ever for what !!!

For me, the SL, Q and M6 are the ideal threesome ....

[DaleG]

19 hours ago, colonel said:

Not entirely true.

M9s and M8s still work fine if kept well.

M8 had LCD issue, M9 had sensor. Later still correctable

M240 was one of Leica's most reliable cameras ever. Its rangefinder is far more sturdy then earlier models, inc. M6, M7 , etc.

However there are components that can't be replaced, so long term the mechanical cameras can be continually fixed but digitals can die

The issue with film of course is the long term existance of film ....

In terms of price, good analogue cameras are of course likely to retain they cost, unless film goes into serious drop off

The way I look at it is to buy what you want and use it now. Otherwise you wait for ever for what !!!

For me, the SL, Q and M6 are the ideal threesome ....

Appreciate your comments.  Being new to digital Leicas, my only personal experience is with the Q - which I am still learning. So I have little personal experience with digital Leicas. My M3 will eventually be joined, if not retired, by probably an M6 or MP.  I was expecting to first add an M10-P and a couple nice Leica lenses - but have yet to do so.  I was just reviewing an M-P 240 wondering if the M10 was worth twice the cost.  Essentially, I've started reducing my full frame Canon/Nikon kits - having already added Fujifilm X mount crop sensors and a couple 1" sensor Sony cameras. I am also considering an Olympus MFT.  I'm getting too old to haul around bags full of pro-sized (gripped) full frame bodies and L-type lenses. So the more compact size and the incredible image qualities => Leica. 

[colonel]

3 hours ago, DaleG said:

Appreciate your comments.  Being new to digital Leicas, my only personal experience is with the Q - which I am still learning. So I have little personal experience with digital Leicas. My M3 will eventually be joined, if not retired, by probably an M6 or MP.  I was expecting to first add an M10-P and a couple nice Leica lenses - but have yet to do so.  I was just reviewing an M-P 240 wondering if the M10 was worth twice the cost.  Essentially, I've started reducing my full frame Canon/Nikon kits - having already added Fujifilm X mount crop sensors and a couple 1" sensor Sony cameras. I am also considering an Olympus MFT.  I'm getting too old to haul around bags full of pro-sized (gripped) full frame bodies and L-type lenses. So the more compact size and the incredible image qualities => Leica. 

A good question

probably one between you and your bank manager

if you can afford it, a M10, new or second hand, is better simply for the slightly better ISO and DR, but the M240 is still a terrific camera, and at half the cost of the M10 second hand is definitely the budget choice

if you are wondering they weigh pretty much the same ...

I have not dabbled in the M10 yet, but when I do it’s likely to be the P as I like a quiet shutter.

But not for a few years ...