Leica M4 - Differences btwn Black Chrome vs Silver Chrome bodies

[twogun]

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I am fortunate to have in my hands at the moment (2) variants of the Leica M4 - One in black  chrome and one in silver chrome. Here are the details below 

Camera 1 - Leica M4 Silver Chrome - Manufacture date 1970 - (4,250 units produced) - Serial # in the range 1250201 to 1254650 

Camera 2 - Leica M4 Black Chrome 1974  (600 units produced)  -  Serial # in the range (1384001 to 1384600)

Reference: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/M4 

For the leica gurus out there - I have some questions.

A: Based on my observation. There is a slight noticeable difference in weight between the two cameras. The older silver chrome Leica M4 is approx 20 grams heavier based on a simple scale measurement with both cameras in a bare-bone state. (w/out film, accessories) - Why would this be the case? Was there a difference in components used in manufacturing between 1970 and 1974 that accounts for this weight difference?

B: The Black Chrome Leica M4 has a stamped Leitz Wetzlar GMBH top plate. is it possible that its manufactured in Canada and not in Germany? Where there any Black Chrome Leica M4 bodies made in Canada? 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by twogun

[pedaes]

Can't help on weight.

According to Laney, no 1970 M4's were made by ELC. In 1974 ,950 cameras were built by ELC (2250 in Wetzlar). The ELC cameras had mostly 'Wetzlar' top plates, and only later ones had "Ernst Leitz Canda Ltd. Midland, Canada' script. ELC cameras include black chrome models.There are readily available lists giving which number cameras were built where.

[Frase]

Different coatings between models, not sure how the black chrome is put on but the chrome has a layer of nickel on top of the brass. Some black chrome M4s were made in Germany and are more collectable than the German ones.

[a.noctilux]

Hello,

 

I'm not Leica M guru, just long time M4 user and I've had some over time.

As side note, my first Leica M was one second hand M4 silver chrome (early 1980's, not weighted it by then ...sorry ).

A -

Leica M weights are variable even with those of same batch 😵

I don't know why, weighting Leica M was my prefered past time, and each time I had one I weighted them.

 

So each time with no strap nor film to be compared them nude.

4 x M4 Silver chrome :

- 1 232 xxx ...547g  - 1 179 xxx ...555g

- 1 214 xxx ...557g  - 1 186 xxx ...557g

 

M4 Black paint (lightest ! 😉 so I keep it ) ...1 246 xxx ...538g

M4 Black chrome ( 50th Anniversary) ...1 414 xxx ...541g

...

To compare them with

M4-2 (my lightest M4 family)...1 502 xxx ...feather light ...523g

MDa, so no VF ...1 293 xxx ...472g

MP BP ...3 003 xxx ...hefty 595g

 

B-

When M4 manufactured (or assembled) in Canada, they have "Canada" marking

 

[Gregm61]

16 hours ago, pedaes said:

Can't help on weight.

According to Laney, no 1970 M4's were made by ELC. In 1974 ,950 cameras were built by ELC (2250 in Wetzlar). The ELC cameras had mostly 'Wetzlar' top plates, and only later ones had "Ernst Leitz Canda Ltd. Midland, Canada' script. ELC cameras include black chrome models.There are readily available lists giving which number cameras were built where.

Tamarkin has one right now with the factory "C" seal that you would think denotes Canada production. There's just all kind of weirdness in Leica production records.

http://www.tamarkin.com/collectibles

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Gregm61

[twogun]

7 hours ago, Gregm61 said:

Tamarkin has one right now with the factory "C" seal that you would think denotes Canada production. There's just all kind of weirdness in Leica production records.

http://www.tamarkin.com/collectibles

Thanks for the info. Yes - for some reason with the shift in production between Wetzlar and Canada during that time makes identifying "M4s" a bit more confusing than earlier bodies.  I'm assuming my m4-black chrome with serial number 13844... and Wetzlar top plate...is manufactured in Germany and not by ELC in Canada . 

Edited August 25, 2019 by twogun
typo

[pico]

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20 minutes ago, twogun said:

Thanks for the info. Yes - for some reason with the shift in production between Welzar and Canada during that time makes identifying "M4s" a bit harder that earlier bodies.  I'm assuming my m4-black chrome with serial number 13844 and wetzlar top plate...is manufactured in Germany and not by ELC in Canada .

In my opinion the black enamel M4 was elegant. Black chrome strikes me as industrial desperation.  The one below is enamel.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by pico

[pedaes]

36 minutes ago, twogun said:

Thanks for the info. Yes - for some reason with the shift in production between Wetzlar and Canada during that time makes identifying "M4s" a bit more confusing than earlier bodies.  I'm assuming my m4-black chrome with serial number 13844... and Wetzlar top plate...is manufactured in Germany and not by ELC in Canada . 

Part of batch 1384001 - 1384600 shown as M4 Schwz 1974, so yes, looks like Wetzlar assembly.

I have a ELC assembled M2 which has only Wetzlar on the top plate.

[UliWer]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Gregm61:

Tamarkin has one right now with the factory "C" seal that you would think denotes Canada production. There's just all kind of weirdness in Leica production records.

...

The seal and its markings does not always denote the place of production. The seal may have been "broken" and renewed just for a simple CLA or any other occasion it was handled in Midland.

[twogun]

On 8/24/2019 at 4:46 PM, a.noctilux said:

Hello,

 

I'm not Leica M guru, just long time M4 user and I've had some over time.

As side note, my first Leica M was one second hand M4 silver chrome (early 1980's, not weighted it by then ...sorry ).

A -

Leica M weights are variable even with those of same batch 😵

I don't know why, weighting Leica M was my prefered past time, and each time I had one I weighted them.

 

So each time with no strap nor film to be compared them nude.

4 x M4 Silver chrome :

- 1 232 xxx ...547g  - 1 179 xxx ...555g

- 1 214 xxx ...557g  - 1 186 xxx ...557g

 

M4 Black paint (lightest ! 😉 so I keep it ) ...1 246 xxx ...538g

M4 Black chrome ( 50th Anniversary) ...1 414 xxx ...541g

...

To compare them with

M4-2 (my lightest M4 family)...1 502 xxx ...feather light ...523g

MDa, so no VF ...1 293 xxx ...472g

MP BP ...3 003 xxx ...hefty 595g

 

B-

When M4 manufactured (or assembled) in Canada, they have "Canada" marking

 

Thank you for this info. I think this helps just to get a baseline idea of the weights on the different bodies. 

[dubois pierre]

 

 

Hello, a question about my M4 black chrome N ° 1381349 from 1974. Is it part of the 950 units notified by Laney and manufactured by ELC with a cover engraved "Wetzlar" and not ELC ?. Thank you

According to Laney, no 1970 M4's were made by ELC. In 1974 ,950 cameras were built by ELC (2250 in Wetzlar). The ELC cameras had mostly 'Wetzlar' top plates, and only later ones had "Ernst Leitz Canda Ltd. Midland, Canada' script. ELC cameras include black chrome models.There are readily available lists giving which number cameras were built where.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[madNbad]

It could be the change to the rewind crank. The crank on the earliest versions were all brass, later models moved to a lighter material.