Artichoke Posted July 30, 2007 Share #21 Posted July 30, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) and a fine one at that Brad Reiman has a great deal of skill and deserves many kudos for his fine action work let me remind you of this iconic action shot (taken in a war zone, though) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! from Robert Capa, who I believed used a Leica rangefinder to capture it Cartier-Bresson & the others in the Magnum group did some serious action work with Leicas as well these of course were prior to AF/11 point metering/VR, etc but somehow I doubt Capa would have used such a bulky system while covering the Spanish Civil War the point that needs making here is not to say any camera is the best for all kinds of work certainly long lenses are the realm of the SLRs and image stabilization schemes & blazingly rapid autofocus help with these ...much action photography can be done with a rangefinder and I think probably done better as you can anticipate the action without having to split attention between one eye looking through the viewfinder and the other looking around it to see what is about to enter the frame ...if you can get close enough, the RF will almost certain yield more winners ...I don't see AF as being able to beat scale focusing on speed and almost certainly a RF will perform better when the light gets marginal ...I can think of no better tool to cover a boxing match for instance than an M8 with a 50 mm Noct or Lux lens ...also many sporting venues limit what size lenses can be brought into them unless one is a credentialed pro ...not only is the M8 less bulky, allowing for better mobility, but it looks much like a P&S camera which most security folks allow as I stated earlier, the M8 compliments a modern DSLR perfectly for the sports photographer & may prove very useful indeed Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! from Robert Capa, who I believed used a Leica rangefinder to capture it Cartier-Bresson & the others in the Magnum group did some serious action work with Leicas as well these of course were prior to AF/11 point metering/VR, etc but somehow I doubt Capa would have used such a bulky system while covering the Spanish Civil War the point that needs making here is not to say any camera is the best for all kinds of work certainly long lenses are the realm of the SLRs and image stabilization schemes & blazingly rapid autofocus help with these ...much action photography can be done with a rangefinder and I think probably done better as you can anticipate the action without having to split attention between one eye looking through the viewfinder and the other looking around it to see what is about to enter the frame ...if you can get close enough, the RF will almost certain yield more winners ...I don't see AF as being able to beat scale focusing on speed and almost certainly a RF will perform better when the light gets marginal ...I can think of no better tool to cover a boxing match for instance than an M8 with a 50 mm Noct or Lux lens ...also many sporting venues limit what size lenses can be brought into them unless one is a credentialed pro ...not only is the M8 less bulky, allowing for better mobility, but it looks much like a P&S camera which most security folks allow as I stated earlier, the M8 compliments a modern DSLR perfectly for the sports photographer & may prove very useful indeed ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/29741-can-leica-m8s-really-work-as-sports-cams/?do=findComment&comment=316397'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 30, 2007 Posted July 30, 2007 Hi Artichoke, Take a look here can leica m8's really work as sports cams?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Rona!d Posted July 31, 2007 Share #22 Posted July 31, 2007 Pete. thanks for the link to the Louis Klemantaski archive. Wonderful stuff! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen.s1 Posted August 2, 2007 Share #23 Posted August 2, 2007 They handle chess matches as well as any slr... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastdap@mac.com Posted August 9, 2007 Share #24 Posted August 9, 2007 just wondering if i should leave the leica home when going to sports events--seem too slow and difficult to work with compared to the nikon and canon cameras (which is why canon advertises so much in sports magazines). can leica's really compete when it comes to sport competitions? my guess is not. keep looking for someone to prove me wrong. Do NOT leave your Leica at home! Notwithstanding the lack of long lenses available for the M cameras, the M8 is a very worthy sports shooter, I use it all the time. Like anything, it requires a particular skill which is based primarily in experience. It is extremely fast focusing and renders brilliant images! How did we we shoot sports before autofocus, somehow amazing images were created. mark This image was shot with the Noctilux, wide open @ f 1.0! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/29741-can-leica-m8s-really-work-as-sports-cams/?do=findComment&comment=324995'>More sharing options...
Tony C. Posted August 9, 2007 Share #25 Posted August 9, 2007 It takes a bit of luck, but... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted August 9, 2007 Share #26 Posted August 9, 2007 Stanton, You have mail. Thanks. Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimli Posted August 10, 2007 Share #27 Posted August 10, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) There are a lot of sport events where you don't need long telephoto lenses. In that cases: why not use a M8. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/29741-can-leica-m8s-really-work-as-sports-cams/?do=findComment&comment=326569'>More sharing options...
Guest localplayer Posted August 15, 2007 Share #28 Posted August 15, 2007 nice image of the motorcycle ! amazing to catch with a rangefinder. well, I guess the answer is yes the M8's can be used for sports. after thinking about it long and hard i decided to stay with the canon's--it is just too hard to switch back and forth during an event and not end up missing a shot. that being said, i will miss the wonderful size and great optics of the leica. like many here, I have used leica cameras for probably 15 yrs--m4's thru the m8. when i started covering the major sports for various agencies--it was either nikon or canon given the need for long glass and super rugged gear--you never know when you have to put a camera underwater, hang it high on a remote or take it out to a large surf break. but anyway, i'll being on the look out this year to see if i can find any pros using the leica gear on the sidelines. so signing out now (Pressing your luck friend. Edit ABr). best of luck to all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted August 15, 2007 Share #29 Posted August 15, 2007 ....ha ha ha........ . ...poor Stanton, what a dope!... . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted August 16, 2007 Share #30 Posted August 16, 2007 It would be very easy for me to get impatient with some of the polarized views in this thread, but I will resist. I will restrict my comments to what should be obvious and that is that the photographer is the greatest variable in the equation and the camera (or other gear) can be almost incidental. Obviously there can be exceptions, but in most situations the camera is merely a tool. As Andy indicated above, don't confuse a hammer with a screwdriver! Unfortunately, a lot of opiniated photographers insist on looking for the slot in the top of the nail. I own an use a wide range of gear. It just happens that most of my work benefits most from using an M8 in available light. As it happened, last night I filled an assignment using flash exclusively. I used two types of flash units, despite my love of available light. In this instance, it would not have been best to shoot avalable. On the week end, I have opted to shoot an upcoming job on medium fomat (Hasselblad) in preference to the M8. There is no such thing as the best camera in the world. Only the best camera for a given job. We should all learn to read the 'image', not the label on the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
feyeping Posted September 17, 2008 Share #31 Posted September 17, 2008 As a amateur, I find it more rewarding to shoot sports event with a manual camera. The following shots were taken by 135 Tele-Elmar. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/29741-can-leica-m8s-really-work-as-sports-cams/?do=findComment&comment=656454'>More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted September 19, 2008 Share #32 Posted September 19, 2008 With all due respect, in my line of work, I'm afraid an M8 (outside the pleasure of it all) would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. As pointed out, long glass is a must. I have my 500mm mounted on a body at ALL times. To be honest, the 500mm is my "normal" lens. Not to create tight shots, mind you, but to change the game. Shooting loose with a 500mm is a whole new ballgame and has a look of it's own. Rona|d's Nuerburgring gallery is spectacular. However, and I say this strictly directed at the initial posted question, the on-track shots, while nice, are no where near the "artistic" caliber of the scene setting images displayed. So, while the pan shots are nice and technically sound, they don't pack the "wow" composition that Rona|d's is obviously capable of. So while he is able to move about the pit lane, garages and paddock capturing elegant reprsentations of the sights and sounds, I fear his equipment can not keep up with him and provide him with the necessary freedom required to take on the action of the on-track opportunities. To do that, you need lots of autofocus speed, lots of reach (glass) and a burst rate at least three times that of an M8. I carry my Digilux 3 to capture scene setters. I like the feel of that style camera when doing that kind of work. I feel it gives me the mindset to go after images such as Rona|d's garage and paddock work.. (though I fear he might have me covered there). But on-track you need an all out arsenal to give you the freedom to capture and interpret what ever comes at you. To compete, you need freedom of the right tools. So, it's not that you can't do it... you just can't do it competively. Hopefully, SUNY will forgive me one sample image (non Leica) to show what I mean by a "loose" 500mm shot. This was shot from a spectator location on a hilltop. My back is to the track and I'm shooting clear across the hillside, through an opening in the tree tops and just beyond a bridge where the cars are cresting another hill... and going away. There is no other way to get this shot. I hope my thoughts were clear and have not offended anyone. JT Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/29741-can-leica-m8s-really-work-as-sports-cams/?do=findComment&comment=658317'>More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted September 19, 2008 Share #33 Posted September 19, 2008 When i see all the good car-racing-shots made by the famous german racing circuit photographer Weidmann with SLOW and OLD gear decades ago, i know that it´s possible. Ron Ah... but Ron, that's not apples-to-apples. Klementaski, Snowdon... etc. etc., stood with their toes on the edge of the track. Yes, they got beautiful images... but they were different images. And, I'd argue that our joy of viewing these photographs is heavily influenced by the emotional collateral they contain... not the technical, or for that matter, image quality. It's also fair to say that the overall body of work represents more of the "big picture" of the events.. not just cars on track. No doubt, they're beautiful... I pour over them for hours on end... but you know as well as I, if it's a different animal. And just as we are envious (at least I am) of the images produced by some of these late greats, I can tell you from personal conversations I've had with Jesse Alexander, they are equally envious of the glass and equipment we have at our access today. Tom Burnside (another great "old-timer" - and I say that with affection) once had a gentle go at me and my 500mm f/4. I quickly reminded him that where he stood 4ft from the car, I've got IMSA safety officials and 24 yards of gravel surrounded by 12 ft. catch fence between me and my shots. He humbly conceded the point. All that said, I LOVE the way those images look. There are times I actually get frustrated at how sanitary our images look. Too sharp... too much color.. not enough character. They can be almost too perfect. I guess that's what keeps it all going around. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbrown Posted September 23, 2008 Share #34 Posted September 23, 2008 Dunno about the M8 but I shot bicycle and motor racing with my M3 very successfully. I used a 135mm Hektor and poked the front through the many chain link fences at the motor race track. Worked great. For bicycle racing you can, of course, get much closer. Plus you can see more of the action through the viewfinder outside of the frame line. Phil Brown Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artichoke Posted September 24, 2008 Share #35 Posted September 24, 2008 snip you can see more of the action through the viewfinder outside of the frame line. Phil Brown this is the greatest advantage of doing sports with a RF camera unless you have used an RF to do action, you do not understand just how important an advantage this is ...HCB noted the importance of the moment in photography & an RF allows the photographer to see it coming I took this with the 75 Summilux & the M8 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! even using a Viso to get closer with a 135 Elmarit, you get a view beyond the frame lines with the M8 as the viewfinder is designed for a "full" frame here is one using that combination larger versions of these, along with shooting information can be found here M8 Photo Gallery by Artichoke Vinagrette at pbase.com an RF camera has a role for action photography, though you have to employ diffferent techniques than when using an AF camera, but this is always the case Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! even using a Viso to get closer with a 135 Elmarit, you get a view beyond the frame lines with the M8 as the viewfinder is designed for a "full" frame here is one using that combination larger versions of these, along with shooting information can be found here M8 Photo Gallery by Artichoke Vinagrette at pbase.com an RF camera has a role for action photography, though you have to employ diffferent techniques than when using an AF camera, but this is always the case ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/29741-can-leica-m8s-really-work-as-sports-cams/?do=findComment&comment=663837'>More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted September 24, 2008 Share #36 Posted September 24, 2008 this is the greatest advantage of doing sports with a RF cameraunless you have used an RF to do action, you do not understand just how important an advantage this is ...HCB noted the importance of the moment in photography & an RF allows the photographer to see it coming I don't know what you are saying here.. I mean I understand that you can "see" the area around your frame lines... and that allows you to perhaps wait an instant while the image comes into "frame"... but that's hardly a serious advantage. Most sports photographers are tracking the action, not waiting for it. an RF camera has a role for action photography, though you have to employ diffferent techniques than when using an AF camera, but this is always the case With all due respect, the fine photos you posted are simply "action" shots where you've snapped the subject at an opportune moment. From a true perspective of "sports" photography, freezing the action is fairly basic and just one element of the shot. As I said, in this day and age, you're not going to competitively shoot sports with a rangefinder. Can you take sports pictures? Yes. Can you take action shots? Sure. But at the end of the day, you're bringing a knife to a gun fight. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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