Old Leicas and guessing exposure...

[frogfish]

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There is the Leica M2 and there ist the Leica MP. 
One I own, the other was a loaner from Leica after I dropped my M7 to the floor and crashed it. Both about the same cameras, except for the light meter, right?

So, I am in to buy a second camera for my weddings. I was wandering if I really need the light meter. It makes a difference of a few thousands Euros just to have that ability. (No interest in M7 and M6 anymore, I too much love the style of the older look)

So, the story goes on. The loaner was faulty and I got it replaced with a Leica M-A. Which is essentially an M2 just a few thousands more expensive.

So, off I went to a wedding and shot it without any light-meter. I just guessed the exposure (of course I trained that at home before). 8 hours, pure reportage, all kind of light-situations.

And? Everything went pretty fine.


I will buy another M2 for 800 bucks, get it cleaned and adjusted and will have two professional wedding cameras for, hm... nearly nothing 🙂

Here are some examples from the day:

 

heiko

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[frogfish]

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[frogfish]

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[frogfish]

...

 

 

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Edited May 17, 2019 by frogfish

[oldwino]

Nic photos! And a couple of nice lenses there, too. 

[thomas_schertel]

I have a Mentor too. Do you use it?

yours sincerely
Thomas

[Ko.Fe.]

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M-A is not just M2. Once camera is in use regularly it will worn out. New will take longer to worn out. But I'm not sure how many rolls and how often is for weddings. Winogrand was frequent in camera stores for used film M and his film M were regular in repair shops. My M4-2 is not different.  Has to be in service due to worn out parts and these days it takes months for getting parts and to be serviced.

As for meterless is depends only on one factor. Do you understand relation between amount of available light  and ISO, shutter speed, aperture or not. This is it. If you understand with 1+3 factors relation  and able to do it quick then you are good for meterless.

I'm not under paid photography pressure.  Now I prefer M4-2 to any other camera if I'm on the trip. I take meterless exposures inside and outside, day and night. Rain or shine.

I'm nowhere genius, so to get where it took me following:

About 50K shots taken and reviewed, under M mode with DSLR. After it I have no problem to understand relation between shutter speed, aperture, ISO and available light.

Once I switched to film, I realized that M-P like cameras are declining my exposure knowledge.  And they are slowing down cameras. 

It is way too slow to rely on TTL metering. M7 is the only way if you want it to be quick with TTL. Since I have no desire for expensive film M electronics, well, I'm just low, single income, large family member... my only choice for fast photography is meterless.

Years ago then I started with M4-2 I started to use Seconic TwinMatte and mobile phone exposure meters. This added more experience, memory, knowledge in addition to my 200K+ exposures taken with digital so far (with understanding of exposure).

In 2018 I started to travel for business again and to keep it simple and compact I'm only taking M4-2 and film on the trip.

No handheld lightmeter, I have installed lightmeter on the phone one day again, but not using it. It slows me down. I would measure light once in while just to keep remember, feel it. Without taking of the image.

Results? I have no exposure failures, but density of the frames on the negative is not always the same. What it means? For scanning next to nothing. For darkroom prints I have to pay more attention for exposure timing, but it is not big deal.   

Meterless for this is very simple once you get yourself familiar with exposure.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

And with practice and memorizing those are not difficult either. You think you are guessing the exposure, but you are recalling it from your deep memory.

With this one I have make decision for low light and handheld, small max aperture (f2.5).

And with this one to feel for how long to press it in B mode.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Ko.Fe.
added photos.

[Ko.Fe.]

19 hours ago, frogfish said:

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The one in the middle was accepted by the client? If so, you have very forgiving base. Where I'm, I'll will be not called again if I submit something like this to the client.

 

 

[frogfish]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb thomas_schertel:

I have a Mentor too. Do you use it?

yours sincerely
Thomas

Yes, I do. But it took quite some work to get it running.
Planned it to use last wedding, thats why its on the image (for a social media post), but the shutter failed again on me.
I keep trying.

 

heiko

[frogfish]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Ko.Fe.:

The one in the middle was accepted by the client? If so, you have very forgiving base. Where I'm, I'll will be not called again if I submit something like this to the client.

 

 

Haha, yes of course. I get booked for my art if you will. 
If I could not shoot like I want, give images I love myself I would quit.

 

heiko

[earleygallery]

I think a hand held meter with incident metering is essential kit for any serious photographer. Cost is minimal compared to bodies and lenses. 

[frogfish]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Ko.Fe.:

M-A is not just M2. Once camera is in use regularly it will worn out. New will take longer to worn out. But I'm not sure how many rolls and how often is for weddings. Winogrand was frequent in camera stores for used film M and his film M were regular in repair shops. My M4-2 is not different.  Has to be in service due to worn out parts and these days it takes months for getting parts and to be serviced.

As for meterless is depends only on one factor. Do you understand relation between amount of available light  and ISO, shutter speed, aperture or not. This is it. If you understand with 1+3 factors relation  and able to do it quick then you are good for meterless.

I'm not under paid photography pressure.  Now I prefer M4-2 to any other camera if I'm on the trip. I take meterless exposures inside and outside, day and night. Rain or shine.

I'm nowhere genius, so to get where it took me following:

About 50K shots taken and reviewed, under M mode with DSLR. After it I have no problem to understand relation between shutter speed, aperture, ISO and available light.

Once I switched to film, I realized that M-P like cameras are declining my exposure knowledge.  And they are slowing down cameras. 

It is way too slow to rely on TTL metering. M7 is the only way if you want it to be quick with TTL. Since I have no desire for expensive film M electronics, well, I'm just low, single income, large family member... my only choice for fast photography is meterless.

Years ago then I started with M4-2 I started to use Seconic TwinMatte and mobile phone exposure meters. This added more experience, memory, knowledge in addition to my 200K+ exposures taken with digital so far (with understanding of exposure).

In 2018 I started to travel for business again and to keep it simple and compact I'm only taking M4-2 and film on the trip.

No handheld lightmeter, I have installed lightmeter on the phone one day again, but not using it. It slows me down. I would measure light once in while just to keep remember, feel it. Without taking of the image.

Results? I have no exposure failures, but density of the frames on the negative is not always the same. What it means? For scanning next to nothing. For darkroom prints I have to pay more attention for exposure timing, but it is not big deal.   

Meterless for this is very simple once you get yourself familiar with exposure.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

And with practice and memorizing those are not difficult either. You think you are guessing the exposure, but you are recalling it from your deep memory.

With this one I have make decision for low light and handheld, small max aperture (f2.5).

And with this one to feel for how long to press it in B mode.

 

Yeah, you might be right, more experience then guessing.
I think I have shot way over 1/2 a million images over the last 7 years.

However, never thought that way while shooting digital. As you change ISO up and down on the fly you do not count numbers that much. You get the feel, however.

Since I moved to analog, I shoot ISO 1600 nearly exclusively. That makes thinks much easier.
Outside it is quite easy o be accurate. Sun is sun. But indoors it gets more difficult, because we do not have the meaning to see light objective. When we are in a darker environment for some minutes we start to see it brighter.
It gets even more challenging when you use off camera flash.

 

heiko

 

[frogfish]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb earleygallery:

I think a hand held meter with incident metering is essential kit for any serious photographer. Cost is minimal compared to bodies and lenses. 

too slow and cumbersome 🙂

at least for me

 

Guess it depends on what you define as "serious photographer".

I am a pro,  I love photography. Some have called me artist. However, never wanted to be serious 🙂

 

heiko

[frogfish]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Ko.Fe.:

M-A is not just M2. Once camera is in use regularly it will worn out. New will take longer to worn out. But I'm not sure how many rolls and how often is for weddings. Winogrand was frequent in camera stores for used film M and his film M were regular in repair shops. My M4-2 is not different.  Has to be in service due to worn out parts and these days it takes months for getting parts and to be serviced.

As for meterless is depends only on one factor. Do you understand relation between amount of available light  and ISO, shutter speed, aperture or not. This is it. If you understand with 1+3 factors relation  and able to do it quick then you are good for meterless.

I'm not under paid photography pressure.  Now I prefer M4-2 to any other camera if I'm on the trip. I take meterless exposures inside and outside, day and night. Rain or shine.

I'm nowhere genius, so to get where it took me following:

About 50K shots taken and reviewed, under M mode with DSLR. After it I have no problem to understand relation between shutter speed, aperture, ISO and available light.

Once I switched to film, I realized that M-P like cameras are declining my exposure knowledge.  And they are slowing down cameras. 

It is way too slow to rely on TTL metering. M7 is the only way if you want it to be quick with TTL. Since I have no desire for expensive film M electronics, well, I'm just low, single income, large family member... my only choice for fast photography is meterless.

Years ago then I started with M4-2 I started to use Seconic TwinMatte and mobile phone exposure meters. This added more experience, memory, knowledge in addition to my 200K+ exposures taken with digital so far (with understanding of exposure).

In 2018 I started to travel for business again and to keep it simple and compact I'm only taking M4-2 and film on the trip.

No handheld lightmeter, I have installed lightmeter on the phone one day again, but not using it. It slows me down. I would measure light once in while just to keep remember, feel it. Without taking of the image.

Results? I have no exposure failures, but density of the frames on the negative is not always the same. What it means? For scanning next to nothing. For darkroom prints I have to pay more attention for exposure timing, but it is not big deal.   

Meterless for this is very simple once you get yourself familiar with exposure.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

And with practice and memorizing those are not difficult either. You think you are guessing the exposure, but you are recalling it from your deep memory.

With this one I have make decision for low light and handheld, small max aperture (f2.5).

And with this one to feel for how long to press it in B mode.

ah, forgot to say. I found a repair man who gets my analog Leica fixed in a few days.
Send in my old M2 and got it fixed for 200+ bucks. Works and feels smother then the brand new M-A I have here for comparison.

 

heiko

[Ko.Fe.]

16 minutes ago, frogfish said:

ah, forgot to say. I found a repair man who gets my analog Leica fixed in a few days.
Send in my old M2 and got it fixed for 200+ bucks. Works and feels smother then the brand new M-A I have here for comparison.

 

heiko

 

22 minutes ago, frogfish said:

 

Yeah, you might be right, more experience then guessing.
I think I have shot way over 1/2 a million images over the last 7 years.

However, never thought that way while shooting digital. As you change ISO up and down on the fly you do not count numbers that much. You get the feel, however.

Since I moved to analog, I shoot ISO 1600 nearly exclusively. That makes thinks much easier.
Outside it is quite easy o be accurate. Sun is sun. But indoors it gets more difficult, because we do not have the meaning to see light objective. When we are in a darker environment for some minutes we start to see it brighter.
It gets even more challenging when you use off camera flash.

 

heiko

 

Few days including of getting Leica parts? If so, it is very astonishing. For Leica parts department :).

 

I was also going to mention what pushing @1600 gives more flexibility. 

As for flash , I don't mind to use on camera flash. f8, 1/50 and on camera flash makes it very simple. My wedding was photographed like this.   

[thomas_schertel]

vor 50 Minuten schrieb frogfish:

Yes, I do. But it took quite some work to get it running.
Planned it to use last wedding, thats why its on the image (for a social media post), but the shutter failed again on me.
I keep trying.

 

heiko

The shutter ist fortunately rather large, so that one can see, wat to do.

Yours sincerely
Thomas

[frogfish]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Ko.Fe.:

 

As for flash , I don't mind to use on camera flash. f8, 1/50 and on camera flash makes it very simple. My wedding was photographed like this.   

Right 🙂

Do that 90% of the time at the reception...

 

heiko

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[earleygallery]

3 hours ago, frogfish said:

too slow and cumbersome 🙂

at least for me

 

Guess it depends on what you define as "serious photographer".

I am a pro,  I love photography. Some have called me artist. However, never wanted to be serious 🙂

 

heiko

Inexcusable if you’re a pro not to have a handheld meter. IMHO of course.

if your guessing worked out ok why even ask the question??

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[250swb]

Leica cameras do not 'wear' and need servicing as much as some people imagine, but I can't imagine why anybody would 'guess' the exposure in a situation where somebody is paying you for doing a competent job. You know how much a hand held meter costs? You shouldn't be metering every shot, just as the light changes, and if you can't see when the light changes you need an auto camera.

Edited May 18, 2019 by 250swb

[frogfish]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb earleygallery:

Inexcusable if you’re a pro not to have a handheld meter. IMHO of course.

if your guessing worked out ok why even ask the question??

lucky me that I do not need to ask for apology.

What question?

 

heiko