Now the time to swap M240 for SL ?

[ron777]

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Saw that. And, unfortunately, rumors are all we have to go on since Leica is a little light on releasing facts.

Edited May 13, 2019 by ron777

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[ropo54]

9 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Do you own other Ms to use with your M lenses?  If not, the decision to give up RF is something only you can decide.  I would only buy an EVF based camera as a complement to my M cameras.  But that’s me.  And if I wanted the SL, I’d probably wait until the SL2 arrives and SL prices sink even more. Others have different perspectives on need vs want (or GAS), and timing/price/value considerations.

Jeff

And when the new SL2 arrives, the S1R and S1 will be discounted.  One can chase discounts forever.  Rob

[Jeff S]

11 minutes ago, ropo54 said:

And when the new SL2 arrives, the S1R and S1 will be discounted.  One can chase discounts forever.  Rob

Well, only as long as stock exists. But if I wanted an SL (which I don’t), I wouldn’t care about Lumix options.  All hypothetical anyway. I’m happy with what I have, but will check out the SL2, whenever it arrives. And maybe find a bargain S007 after the dust settles on the S3. No rush.

Jeff

Edited May 14, 2019 by Jeff S

[IkarusJohn]

I love my SL - not using it much right now, but it is definitely a keeper.  I have the three zooms and the 50 Summilux-SL, and may add a medium tele if one comes out.  Great  camera, and I'm not really that interested in anything they upgrade to in the SL2.  The SL does enough.

This last point got me thinking.  At the moment, Leica makes the APS-C cameras and the SL - each in the L mount, which Leica is committed to - and it makes the M system.  I'm disregarding the S system, as that has its own niche.  The M cameras have been refinements, all based on the original M3 rangefinder concept.  This has encouraged upgrades, but fundamentally the system has remained faithful to the original concept; and we get the benefit of over 60 years of M mount lenses.

The L mount cameras are a different concept, in many ways.  It will inevitably chase the technology rat race, offering the best iterations of what the current tech has to offer.  The SL has to keep up, while maintaining that rather special Leica approach to things.  What makes me wonder is if, like the first version of the Monochrom, the SL will maintain a special place in the Leica line-up.  The next camera, if you listen to the experts here, will have a more tactile body, better video, more MP, a better processor, IBIS and heaven only knows what else - it will be better in every respect.  It will be a fantastic camera, no doubt; but it won't be the same as the SL ...

If I was in the market for a second body, I'd buy one soon.  The price will continue to fall, until like the Monochrom, people appreciate it for what it is, and the SL2 and other L mount cameras aren't.  You can see it already in what the Panasonics have to offer.

[ropo54]

47 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

I love my SL - not using it much right now, but it is definitely a keeper.  I have the three zooms and the 50 Summilux-SL, and may add a medium tele if one comes out.  Great  camera, and I'm not really that interested in anything they upgrade to in the SL2.  The SL does enough.

This last point got me thinking.  At the moment, Leica makes the APS-C cameras and the SL - each in the L mount, which Leica is committed to - and it makes the M system.  I'm disregarding the S system, as that has its own niche.  The M cameras have been refinements, all based on the original M3 rangefinder concept.  This has encouraged upgrades, but fundamentally the system has remained faithful to the original concept; and we get the benefit of over 60 years of M mount lenses.

The L mount cameras are a different concept, in many ways.  It will inevitably chase the technology rat race, offering the best iterations of what the current tech has to offer.  The SL has to keep up, while maintaining that rather special Leica approach to things.  What makes me wonder is if, like the first version of the Monochrom, the SL will maintain a special place in the Leica line-up.  The next camera, if you listen to the experts here, will have a more tactile body, better video, more MP, a better processor, IBIS and heaven only knows what else - it will be better in every respect.  It will be a fantastic camera, no doubt; but it won't be the same as the SL ...

If I was in the market for a second body, I'd buy one soon.  The price will continue to fall, until like the Monochrom, people appreciate it for what it is, and the SL2 and other L mount cameras aren't.  You can see it already in what the Panasonics have to offer.

And, you just got me thinking . . . will the Leica APSC lens performance also improve on the SL2/SR1 since they will now be working with larger pixel sensors (so better low light performance) with the equivalent number of pixels that were available on the APSC sensors?  

(I suppose this query is a bit off topic and perhaps better suited to another thread).

Edited May 14, 2019 by ropo54

[nicci78]

I suppose that 20 vs 24 MP will not change anything.

We are talking about a 5504 x 3664 APS-C crop on S1R vs 6000 x 4000 APS-S sensor on CL.

Only an 8% linear decrease resolution. 

 

But back to the topic, I think that the SL is a better buy now at this new price than the M10.

In France we are talking of a SL + M-Adapter-L at 4790€ inc. VAT vs M10-P + Visoflex at 8150€ inc. VAT.

Almost half price for the same basic functionalities :  touch screen, level gauge, similar 24MP sensor, silent shutter, etc...

But you get a way better EVF with the SL and a bigger body to support heavy M lenses such Noctilux and R lenses. 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by nicci78

[colonel]

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I went to have a look at the SL again.

I loved the design but on second thoughts I am wondering if its a bit less ergonomic with M lenses

I was actually tempted to buy it with a 28-90 and leave my M lenses on my M

If works like it was intended with its native lenses. i.e. perhaps the M lenses should only be a side show with the SL, whilst the main event are native lenses ...

Decisions decisions

 

 

 

[rfunnell]

I've just purchased a new SL for a discount price  it's a great camera.

Having had many M camera's including the current M10 my ageing eyes need some help and the EVF is pretty good to use with M lenses.

I am also trading my Summilux-M 35 ASPH towards the Summicron-SL 35 APO and will probably trade my Summicron-M 50 APO for the Summicron-SL 75.

I am using the Leica Q2 so this covers 28, 35, 75 nicely.

 

 

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

 

But you get a way better EVF with the SL and a bigger body to support heavy M lenses such Noctilux and R lenses. 

 

But the RF on the SL sucks.

Depends on one’s preferences and priorities.

Jeff

[jcraf]

2 hours ago, colonel said:

I went to have a look at the SL again.

I loved the design but on second thoughts I am wondering if its a bit less ergonomic with M lenses

I was actually tempted to buy it with a 28-90 and leave my M lenses on my M

If works like it was intended with its native lenses. i.e. perhaps the M lenses should only be a side show with the SL, whilst the main event are native lenses ...

Decisions decisions

 

 

 

I am inclined to agree somewhat. I love the M lenses on the SL, but it is designed with its own ever-expanding range of native lenses in mind, not least of which is their AF capability and IS. 

It works very well with M lenses, better than any other mirrorless camera, as you'd expect, but of course the best results are inevitably going to be with the native SL lenses.  Big and heavy though they are.  Of course, it's probably too early to speak about the Panasonic L mount offerings........

[colonel]

20 minutes ago, jcraf said:

I am inclined to agree somewhat. I love the M lenses on the SL, but it is designed with its own ever-expanding range of native lenses in mind, not least of which is their AF capability and IS. 

It works very well with M lenses, better than any other mirrorless camera, as you'd expect, but of course the best results are inevitably going to be with the native SL lenses.  Big and heavy though they are.  Of course, it's probably too early to speak about the Panasonic L mount offerings........

The S1 doesn't interest me at all, but the panny 24-105 lens looks interesting. That another option, buy the SL with the 24-105. Then I have the AF camera without some of the weight and cost of the Leica lens, and also have a platform for the M lenses

At the moment I am trying to consolidate my mirrorless AF solution. Sony A7 iii might win but its the least "fun" in the amateur sense. The Z6 ticks alot of bases but I dont want to deal with the banding. The Canon EOS-R is very nice on a colour and handling basis, but it attacked for its silly soft slider, no IS and poor 4K video (which I couldn't care less about). None of them are in any way comparable to the feel of the SL. Which, weirdly, is important to me. If I don't get the SL I'll get the A7 iii or the EOS-R but neither fill me with much excitement ...

[dkmoore]

I would only swap an M240 for an SL if I DID NOT like rangefinder focusing. Otherwise there is really little reason to switch to the SL because image quality will be very similar. The SL beats the M240 in ISO by 1-1.5 stops (if memory serves) but otherwise the output is going to be close. 

The M240 is fantastic. It produces great IQ, is smaller then the SL, is native M mount for M lenses, etc. It has many advantages over the SL if you get along with rangefinder focusing.

[colonel]

12 hours ago, colonel said:

The S1 doesn't interest me at all, but the panny 24-105 lens looks interesting. That another option, buy the SL with the 24-105. Then I have the AF camera without some of the weight and cost of the Leica lens, and also have a platform for the M lenses

At the moment I am trying to consolidate my mirrorless AF solution. Sony A7 iii might win but its the least "fun" in the amateur sense. The Z6 ticks alot of bases but I dont want to deal with the banding. The Canon EOS-R is very nice on a colour and handling basis, but it attacked for its silly soft slider, no IS and poor 4K video (which I couldn't care less about). None of them are in any way comparable to the feel of the SL. Which, weirdly, is important to me. If I don't get the SL I'll get the A7 iii or the EOS-R but neither fill me with much excitement ...

Take back the Z6 comment. Apparently the banding is only if you push 5 stops and actually better then Canon. Think the Z6 is back on the table ....

[biogon]

I have sold my M240 to buy a used SL body, almost at the same price, and am very glad I have done that. But only because I also own a M9-P...😉

[CharlesL]

20 hours ago, dkmoore said:

The M240 is fantastic. It produces great IQ, is smaller then the SL, is native M mount for M lenses, etc. It has many advantages over the SL if you get along with rangefinder focusing.

... including the practical limitations outside the 28 - 50 mm range of focal lengths.

 

[dkmoore]

1 hour ago, CharlesL said:

... including the practical limitations outside the 28 - 50 mm range of focal lengths.

 

I've had no issues shooting up to 90 on the M240 and I know I am not alone on that one.

You can even get by using the rangefinder with 18-24mm for every day photography, family shots, street, travel.

Sure, if you're an architecture or landscape photographer (or anyone trying to get a very precise framing) you can just slap on the EVF.

At least for me, I rarely ever use anything outside of 28-90.

Again, the only reason I'd switch to the SL (from M240) is if I wasn't in love with rangefinder focusing. 

[easy_action]

On 5/14/2019 at 12:22 AM, Leicaiste said:

The SL is the only current mirrorless (other than M cameras) designed to work properly with (wide-angle) M lenses.

 

You're referring to the arrangement of microlenses on the SL sensor?

 

[RoySmith]

5 hours ago, easy_action said:

You're referring to the arrangement of microlenses on the SL sensor?

 

And the thin cover glass on the sensor.

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[Ertos]

I went from M240 to M10 and since 5 months ago, to the SL. The M10 for me was a great evolution of the concept but it turns out the SL is actually the better fitting option. I did buy SL glass but ended up selling it as I missed the feel of the M lenses. Instead I bought an F1 noctilux and the combo with the SL is working very well for me. The SL is hypermodern but the way the ergonomics are designed and the understated but intuititive 'user experience' is a great match for an M lens. I played with a 50mm Summilux on it and even though it feels a bit small, it's also a great combo. I also had a Voigtlander 40mm 1.2 (which I am selling after the Nocti came in) and that felt well balanced also.

It is a personal choice but it is clear the simplicity of the RF experience with the M has somehow been kept in the SL, just in a very different way. The philosophy of the S1/SR1 is so different.

[JoanP]

Another POV is that there is now a "bundle" being offered consisting of a NEW SL, with either the 24-90 OR the 50mm including cable release, cables, battery, etc. and the 2 year Leica warranty as all is new. This is going for $7995 at B&H and even lower at POPFLASH. I know as I just called POPLFLASH which is where I've bought quite a bit of Leica gear. I've actually never handled or even seen an SL but these are really great deals. POPFLASH has the same bundle for $7588. They told me, "as they trickle in from Leica we are selling them at a discount". I have a M10 and M246 with a bunch of M glass. I'd love to try an SL and would pick this over the newer and improved S1 or S1R.