flash for Leica SL: SF60 vs SF64

[cpclee]

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I have not seen a direct comparison of these two flashes.  My main application is daylight portraiture with the flash for fill-in.  A high guide number is not important to me, but TTL, flexible exposure compensation (eg. in 1/3 stops), a good diffuser, and HSS are important to me.  Also important is ease of operation / good user interface.  My typical lens is the 24-90 zoom but may also use R or M  primes in the 28-75mm range or (less often) the 80-200/4 R zoom through adapters.

The SF 64 and SF 60 are now selling at the same price on B&H and on paper they both fit my bill.  Any practical wisdom from actually using these flashes will be very helpful.

Edited May 5, 2019 by cpclee

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

I have both.

The SF64 is a re-badged Metz flash. The SF60 is a re-badged Nissin. Neither are available from the original manufacturer due to a deal they made with Leica.The SF60 is considerably smaller but that also means the head is closer to the lens axis. The SF60 can be used wirelessly with the remote commander and you can have more than one in wireless operation. The SF64 does not have wireless operation. The SF64 has a touchscreen but is slower to operate than the SF60's dials, however, if you set EV compensation through the SL body the SF64 sees it. You need to use the EV dial on the SF60. Power is about the same. The SF64 is discontinued so you're looking at new/old stock.

If I were to choose it would be the SF60. I find the interface on the SF64 annoying.

Gordon

[LocalHero1953]

+1 regarding the SF64 interface. The absence of a dial for quick changing of power settings, the slow touchscreen (I mean unresponsive), and the poorly thought out menus make it a real pain in use. I don't really want TTL, and prefer not to use on-camera flash (sometimes I have no choice) so there are plenty of other options out there for my use.

[cpclee]

Thanks.  How about the quality of fill-in light?  I read about the frontal subflash of the SF 64 / Metz 64 AF-1 being useful when the main flash head is in bounce mode.

[ron777]

I'd recently turned my unused SF64 in to a Leica dealer as part of a trade and was informed that it had been a discontinued ( Metz manufactured item) at least for the US.

[LocalHero1953]

I haven't used it for fill-in flash - I used it mainly in A mode - it did at least read the aperture from the camera, and I then touched little else.

[caissa]

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It is a bit sad to say it, but for flash it is probably much better to use a Lumix S camera, with a very wide range of available flashes with much richer functionality.
If you need the latest functionality in flash systems, then it is a no-brainer. If flash is not often used and manual flash is good enough (as in my case) I stay with Leica SL. Also for tethering the Lumix cameras are better (with USB cable or wireless, also regarding continuous power supply). So for professional studio work ...........

What a professional flash costs is already half the price for a S1.

The sad thing is, Leica knows about it (since about 2 years at least), but they are not successful in fixing it. (maybe low priority ?)
This is an opportunity for another alliance, if for example Leica would simply abandon their own flash system and join the system of Panasonic and Olympus. But I have no idea if this is difficult, or why ....

Edited May 5, 2019 by caissa

[sillbeers15]

The SF60 can only work on TTL mode (manual mode does not work) when HSS is selected when using via SF C1 as OCF.

The SF60 also overheats easily when you demand more from it. The Nissin MG10 overcomes this problem.

SF64 can only be used as a hot shoe flash. Unless you bounce your flash off reflector or only use it to fill (take out unwanted shadows on subject), illumination coming from camera position is just dragful and amateurish especially on portraits.

[sillbeers15]

4 hours ago, caissa said:

It is a bit sad to say it, but for flash it is probably much better to use a Lumix S camera, with a very wide range of available flashes with much richer functionality.
If you need the latest functionality in flash systems, then it is a no-brainer. If flash is not often used and manual flash is good enough (as in my case) I stay with Leica SL. Also for tethering the Lumix cameras are better (with USB cable or wireless, also regarding continuous power supply). So for professional studio work ...........

What a professional flash costs is already half the price for a S1.

The sad thing is, Leica knows about it (since about 2 years at least), but they are not successful in fixing it. (maybe low priority ?)
This is an opportunity for another alliance, if for example Leica would simply abandon their own flash system and join the system of Panasonic and Olympus. But I have no idea if this is difficult, or why ....

That is one of my main motivation for wanting the S1R other than improved AF-C tracking on moving subjects.

The S camera will allow me to use all my SL lenses and adopt Profoto lights (except A1) via AIR remote and the cheap and good GODOX AD200.

[cpclee]

i played with both models in the store and ended up preferring the SF 64 due to the flexibility provided by the secondary reflector in the front and an A(utomatic) mode where the user can manually set the ISO, focal length and aperture and the flash will take care of the metering and output level. The latter means the A mode can work on cameras without a compatible electronic system, eg. older Leica cameras including film Leicas as well as cameras from other brands. I have several film Leicas and this is very useful for me.

The SF 60 on the other hand is only good with cameras utilising a compatible electronic system or else it becomes fully manual and a pain to use.

 

The SF 64 is currently available at B&H at a $250 discount, making it not much more than the Metz 64 AF-1 that it is derived from. 

 

i only ever ever use my flash for fill so hotshot mounting won’t be a problem for me.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by cpclee

[FlashGordonPhotography]

You can use any Nikon type flash cable to get your SF64 off the flash if you want as the pins are in the same spot. It's only wireless that you can't do. I have a couple of cheap ones I bought online and they work fine.

I had forgotten about A mode. It is useful on the SL also in backlit situations where the TTL does not work very well. And on the SL the ISO and aperture are sent from the camera in A mode so it's a quasi TTL mode and very handy.

Gordon

[FMB]

In A mode also can be used the SF 58 and even the SF 24 D. I can't understand why this A mode is forgotten in Nissin and other modern brands it's very useful in many situations, with compensation values and/or as optical receivers with semi-TTL  job, if I'm not wrong, at least using them with of flash optical triggers, like Kaiser 1503 and others.

 

Francisco.

[cpclee]

17 hours ago, FMB said:

In A mode also can be used the SF 58 and even the SF 24 D. I can't understand why this A mode is forgotten in Nissin and other modern brands it's very useful in many situations, with compensation values and/or as optical receivers with semi-TTL  job, if I'm not wrong, at least using them with of flash optical triggers, like Kaiser 1503 and others.

 

Francisco.

I absolutely agree that the A mode is very useful and is something that I’ve relied on for many years when using cameras without TTL flash metering or without a matching TTL flash unit.   I think the reason Nissin ignores the A mode is because the A mode requires more buttons and a more complex interface design and hence higher costs.