Face exposure / skin tones

[paul.bridges.3388]

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Anyone else struggle with the Q2 exposing faces? Spot or centre-weighted, my faces tend to be blown out.  AEL doesn’t seem to help.  Recovering in post leaves the skin tone looking flat.  Or, is it merely my poor technique? Edited April 7, 2019 by paul.bridges.3388
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[evikne]

39 minutes ago, paul.bridges.3388 said:

Recovering in post leaves the skin tone looking flat.  Or, is it merely my poor technique?

I don't know the Q2, but have you tried lowering the midtone/exposure instead of just the highlights?

[paul.bridges.3388]

3 minutes ago, evikne said:

I don't know the Q2, but have you tried lowering the midtone/exposure instead of just the highlights?

You mean in post?  I use LR and find it rather unforgiving with the face tones.  

[evikne]

46 minutes ago, paul.bridges.3388 said:

You mean in post?  I use LR and find it rather unforgiving with the face tones.  

Yes, I mean in post. I use LR too (RAW files). And when faces look blown out, I think the best solution is to lower the entire exposure to recover the skin tones. Lowering only the highlights tend to leave the skin tone looking flat.

Edited April 7, 2019 by evikne

[paul.bridges.3388]

I find that the skin tone and colour is quickly lost.  The Sony files seemed to handle more carefully in this regard.  I’m falling back on the JPGs for this reason.  These are pretty much perfect....but for the face over-exposure.  Perhaps more practice is key. 

[leicamario]

Indeed, skins in jpeg are rather disappointing. Hard to justify such an expensive camera to the wife when shooting day to day family photos.

[paul.bridges.3388]

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39 minutes ago, leicamario said:

Indeed, skins in jpeg are rather disappointing. Hard to justify such an expensive camera to the wife when shooting day to day family photos.

In good light, the Q2 family day to day portraits are amazing....and my wife loves them.  I’m just finding myself missing a fast prime M-lens in available light.  Disappointing to feel this way about such expensive kit.

[wda]

Paul, examine the histogram and if the highlights are blown, make slight adjustments to exposure or specifically the light tones until there is no clipping. I think your exposure meter is trying to average the exposure to satisfy both face and background and failing in the process. Spot metering would help, while shooting, or, with experience, apply a negative EV adjustment. But I still think you can recover skin tones in pp. Raw file original?

I will attach a quickly fine-tuned copy version with limited improvements considering the low-res jpeg file available. I also note the mixed artificial lighting in the pub which adds its own complications. I sampled the pile of beer mats on the table to get an alternative white balance; also brushed the face with further slight tweaks in LR on a calibrated monitor. I don't claim it is better. See what you think.

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Edited April 8, 2019 by wda
Added a picture

[Don Morley]

22 minutes ago, wda said:

Paul, examine the histogram and if the highlights are blown, make slight adjustments to exposure or specifically the light tones until there is no clipping. I think your exposure meter is trying to average the exposure to satisfy both face and background and failing in the process. Spot metering would help, while shooting, or, with experience, apply a negative EV adjustment. But I still think you can recover skin tones in pp. Raw file original?

I will attach a quickly fine-tuned copy version with limited improvements considering the low-res jpeg file available. I also note the mixed artificial lighting in the pub which adds its own complications. I sampled the pile of beer mats on the table to get an alternative white balance; also brushed the face with further slight tweaks in LR on a calibrated monitor. I don't claim it is better. See what you think.

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I agree with David, your cameras light metering system is merely trying to average a very non average range of tones. Don

[leicamario]

Indeed, the scene is hard to calculate correctly with center weight AE.

Still, the skin tones are, most of the time, too blueish or yellowish. Nobody else with that problem?

[paul.bridges.3388]

48 minutes ago, wda said:

Paul, examine the histogram and if the highlights are blown, make slight adjustments to exposure or specifically the light tones until there is no clipping. I think your exposure meter is trying to average the exposure to satisfy both face and background and failing in the process. Spot metering would help, while shooting, or, with experience, apply a negative EV adjustment. But I still think you can recover skin tones in pp. Raw file original?

I will attach a quickly fine-tuned copy version with limited improvements considering the low-res jpeg file available. I also note the mixed artificial lighting in the pub which adds its own complications. I sampled the pile of beer mats on the table to get an alternative white balance; also brushed the face with further slight tweaks in LR on a calibrated monitor. I don't claim it is better. See what you think.

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Really grateful for your reply.  Your tweaks look good, but somewhat emphasise my point.  The shot was taken with spot metering and auto focused on the face.  So, it shouldn’t need pulling much.  And when done in post, it gives an unsatisfactory tone (albeit, recognising he constraint of the jpg).  But very glad of your kind advice: thank you.  I’ll be practicing some more!

paul

[wda]

19 minutes ago, leicamario said:

Indeed, the scene is hard to calculate correctly with center weight AE.

Still, the skin tones are, most of the time, too blueish or yellowish. Nobody else with that problem?

 I wonder how well recalibrated your system is. Where colour fidelity is important,  I choose to shooting a calibrated grey card at the scene. For greater peace of mind, I produce a specific colour profile using a Pantone ColorChecker, the latter for each camera in use.

[leicamario]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb wda:

 I wonder how well recalibrated your system is. Where colour fidelity is important,  I choose to shooting a calibrated grey card at the scene. For greater peace of mind, I produce a specific colour profile using a Pantone ColorChecker, the latter for each camera in use.

that’s great for professional work but not for private shots.

well, i’m spoiled by fuji jpegs.

[wda]

4 hours ago, leicamario said:

that’s great for professional work but not for private shots.

well, i’m spoiled by fuji jpegs.

Not exclusively for professional work. Colour fidelity is subjective but important for those whose applied work, private or professional, requires accuracy when used for colour matching when shopping for replacement furnishings or new decor, for example. No matter how good you think Fuji jpegs are, there are bound to be times when lighting plays tricks and you need to employ post processing skills to restore faithful colour.

Another unquantifiable factor is human colour perception. This is often ignored or unappreciated. But up to 25% of European males suffer from this characteristic which is incurable and often unappreciated. Only mathematical description of colour presents a theoretically accurate rendering of colour.

Edited April 8, 2019 by wda
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[paul.bridges.3388]

7 hours ago, leicamario said:

Indeed, the scene is hard to calculate correctly with center weight AE.

Still, the skin tones are, most of the time, too blueish or yellowish. Nobody else with that problem?

It was spot AE, hence my concern.  Yes: I find them flat and yellow.

[leicamario]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb wda:

Not exclusively for professional work. Colour fidelity is subjective but important for those whose applied work, private or professional, requires accuracy when used for colour matching when shopping for replacement furnishings or new decor, for example. No matter how good you think Fuji jpegs are, there are bound to be times when lighting plays tricks and you need to employ post processing skills to restore faithful colour.

Another unquantifiable factor is human colour perception. This is often ignored or unappreciated. But up to 25% of European males suffer from this characteristic which is incurable and often unappreciated. Only mathematical description of colour presents a theoretically accurate rendering of colour.

Ahm, making photos of your children while playing in the garden? An interesting crowd is formed on the street for a few seconds? I walk by an old man in the park? Quick, give me that color meter.

Haha.

Edited April 8, 2019 by leicamario

[evikne]

28 minutes ago, leicamario said:

Ahm, making photos of your children while playing in the garden? An interesting crowd is formed on the street for a few seconds? I walk by an old man in the park? Quick, give me that color meter.

Haha.

I do that. Always. In my wallet I always carry I credit card size WhiBal card, and for a bit more serious shooting I use an ExpoDisc WB filter. To me, there is always a subtle, yet (to me) important difference from the camera's AWB. And it saves a lot of time in post.

[Daedalus2000]

23 hours ago, paul.bridges.3388 said:

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Anyone else struggle with the Q2 exposing faces? Spot or centre-weighted, my faces tend to be blown out.  AEL doesn’t seem to help.  Recovering in post leaves the skin tone looking flat.  Or, is it merely my poor technique?

I wonder if you observe the same issue with male skin. What I found in the past is that specific type of make up tends to reflect light in a way that gives the results you got above. Do you think that may have been the issue?

[dancook]

I hardly ever recover shadows or highlights because it rarely looks natural.

i might reduce exposure as a whole and if shadows needed a boost maybe I would...

i hate recovering highlights unless it’s a blown window. Recovering highlights regardless of camera often leaves an image looking flat.

i like the original image, perhaps reduce exposure a tiny bit. Guinness might be a giveaway, but looks dark hair, light skin, looks like an Irish beauty to me.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[hcklr]

I shoot a QP,  and a Q for a while before that. One issue that I have pretty consistently is these cameras blowing out skin tones. I don't have advice other than to say that you aren't alone.