Light leak with Leica M3

[Lika]

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Hi

I have a sporadic light leak which is proving very frustrating to figure out. I put two sets of adjacent frames below to show that this has a triangular profile and crosses the frame line. It’s been  evaluated by an expert leica technician  who couldn’t reproduce it. But when the camera comes back into my hands I get maybe 10% of the frames with the light leak. 

In other threads on other sites, people have commented that this kind of light leak can occur from the range finder window in the M2 camera. However, the technician who had the camera tells me that the M3 doesn’t have this kind of problem. 

In searching for leaks using a bright LED lamp, I see some light coming around the base of the lens at the lens mount, but I can’t see any other leaks anywhere else. It seems to me unlikely that this leak would account for the shape and location on the negatives.

If anyone has an experience of a similar leak I would be most grateful for any comments or advice. 

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[M9reno]

That pattern on adjacent frames would suggest that the leak is from the back, not from the front of the camera.  I would suspect the top of the back door: are the seals there ok?

[Lika]

Thanks M9reno

Half a roll shot with  camera as is, so I will finish roll with tape around back door of camera. Might be a sunny day tomorrow (rare in Seattle), so might see an effect of the tape.

Once roll is through, will also try light testing across back door looking through front of camera with shutter on bulb.

I was in Oxford for 3 years in the late 70's. It's a lovely place.

Best

 

[TomB_tx]

Light leaks from the back side of the film tend to be orange from the light coming through the film base. Check around the rewind / advance lever at the front of the camera - I've heard of leaks there several times. On the takeup side the film winds reversed (emulsion side out) so it is likely in that area, towards the top of the body. I've also heard of a strap lug light leak - which would be about the right height.

[beto]

On 1/14/2019 at 2:47 AM, Lika said:

Thanks M9reno

Half a roll shot with  camera as is, so I will finish roll with tape around back door of camera. Might be a sunny day tomorrow (rare in Seattle), so might see an effect of the tape.

Once roll is through, will also try light testing across back door looking through front of camera with shutter on bulb.

I was in Oxford for 3 years in the late 70's. It's a lovely place.

Best

 

I have an occasional leak with the exact same pattern on my recently acquired M3. Could you solve it? Thanks in advance.

[Lika]

The leak in my M3 was from the strap lug on the take up side. It was very subtle, I couldn’t see any light coming through when I shone a torch. But convinced that this was the location of the leak, I painted some black vinyl liquid insulator on the inside rivet of the strap lug inside the camera. That fixed the light leak immediately. So that’s the answer from my camera. Hopefully, this will fix yours too. It won’t cost anything to do this. Just be careful not to get any of the vinyl liquid tape on any of the moving parts.

good luck!

[beto]

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10 hours ago, Lika said:

The leak in my M3 was from the strap lug on the take up side. It was very subtle, I couldn’t see any light coming through when I shone a torch. But convinced that this was the location of the leak, I painted some black vinyl liquid insulator on the inside rivet of the strap lug inside the camera. That fixed the light leak immediately. So that’s the answer from my camera. Hopefully, this will fix yours too. It won’t cost anything to do this. Just be careful not to get any of the vinyl liquid tape on any of the moving parts.

good luck!

Thank you so much Lika.

By the way, really surprising that it is exactly the same pattern. Here are a couple of photos. When I established exactly the position and more or less, horizontal shape of the light leak, it didn't match the axis of the strap lug, so I had ruled it out, thinking it was the seal that goes on the outside perimeter of the frame. I hope it helps others as well.
Regards.

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Edited October 18, 2021 by beto

[Lika]

Well, the appearances are so similar, I suspect that your leak is actually coming from the strap lug. The only thing I did to my camera was to put the liquid vinyl tape on the interior face of the rivet, and the light leak went away. So this might be a diagnostic step for you, or even a permanent fix. Let me know how things work out.

Lika

[Lika]

Oh, and a couple of other things I learned in this process. The image is inverted, So the bottom of the negative corresponds to the top of the roll as it goes onto the take up spool. The second thing which is notable is that the light leak occurs out of sync with frames. And this is explained by the fact that as the film winds onto the take up spool, the roll gets fatter and fatter so the location of the leak becomes wider and wider apart through the negatives as the film is run through the camera.

Take a look and see if this pattern corresponds to your experience as well

Lika

 

 

 

[beto]

1 hour ago, Lika said:

Oh, and a couple of other things I learned in this process. The image is inverted, So the bottom of the negative corresponds to the top of the roll as it goes onto the take up spool. The second thing which is notable is that the light leak occurs out of sync with frames. And this is explained by the fact that as the film winds onto the take up spool, the roll gets fatter and fatter so the location of the leak becomes wider and wider apart through the negatives as the film is run through the camera.

Take a look and see if this pattern corresponds to your experience as well

Lika

 

 

 

yes, the image is flipped horizontally and vertically, so the axis of the pattern goes up at the same distance from the edge of the frame. I superimposed the negative upside down and marked the axis on masking tape, but this axis only marks the most noticeable part of the pattern. There is another part, which looks like a reiteration that happens more towards the center of the image.
In the M3 repair manual they only mention 3 possible leaks, one is when using a certain flash, other with the shutter mechanism and last on the back door. Anyway, it would be good to check the seal on the perimeter of the frame.
I will let you know when I resolve it.

Regards.
Beto.

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Edited October 18, 2021 by beto

[beto]

On 10/18/2021 at 4:01 PM, Lika said:

Well, the appearances are so similar, I suspect that your leak is actually coming from the strap lug. The only thing I did to my camera was to put the liquid vinyl tape on the interior face of the rivet, and the light leak went away. So this might be a diagnostic step for you, or even a permanent fix. Let me know how things work out.

Lika

Hi Lika , the strap lugs were plugged internally with liquid vinyl tape, but the problem remains exactly the same.
You never have this light leakage again?

[Hintsalae]

Doesn't light leak through back create red halation? At least mine did. Maybe this one is in front of the filmgate.

[beto]

5 hours ago, Hintsalae said:

Doesn't light leak through back create red halation? At least mine did. Maybe this one is in front of the filmgate.

Thanks for your feedback.
In post #7 and #10 is the light leak pattern, which always happens between two frames. I don't see a red halo. My last roll has, after liquid electrical tape over the strap rivets, exactly the same pattern as always.
Other possibilities I can think of is that at some speed the dragging of the curtain in and out leaves a moment of light entry at one edge or that it may come from some perforation such as from the lever to release the rewind, etc. It doesn't happen in every photo, but it can be about 3 pairs on a roll.

 

[Niko]

Years ago i had the same leak on my M3. After several other repair attempts elsewhere, CRR Luton located the leak at the rangefinder window. They told me that some M3 need a light seal around the window and some don’t.

[davidmknoble]

@beto,

Sometimes we take images more quickly and sometimes the camera sits between frames.  If the light leak is very, very small, it might not show up easily between frames when shooting quickly (one frame, then a minute or two and another frame).

While it may take some time, try a roll and take one photo per day, leaving the camera out on a table with the same lens.  Then see if the light shows up on all frames.  If so, then it is not intermittent, just shows up when sitting longer between frames.

Just a thought.

[beto]

7 hours ago, Niko said:

Years ago i had the same leak on my M3. After several other repair attempts elsewhere, CRR Luton located the leak at the rangefinder window. They told me that some M3 need a light seal around the window and some don’t.

Thank you Niko for your response. I will tell the technician that there is such a possibility.

[beto]

24 minutes ago, davidmknoble said:

@beto,

Sometimes we take images more quickly and sometimes the camera sits between frames.  If the light leak is very, very small, it might not show up easily between frames when shooting quickly (one frame, then a minute or two and another frame).

While it may take some time, try a roll and take one photo per day, leaving the camera out on a table with the same lens.  Then see if the light shows up on all frames.  If so, then it is not intermittent, just shows up when sitting longer between frames.

Just a thought.

Hi David, thanks for your response.

Well, I could summarize that it's not in all the photos on a roll where it happens. Probably about 3 pairs (always between two frames) on a roll.  Also, that my habit is to go out with the camera slung over my shoulder, no bag ,especially now that I was testing to see if the leakage remained, walking for hours. Sometimes I don't even shoot a picture. Only when I find something. So, there are usually large gaps of time between photos. When I find something, I may shoot a photo or a series, but no more than two or three photos.
I've also thought that when there are those larger gaps of time, it happens, but it's not so clear to me because it's weeks or months between rolls. I'm going to check.
What is clear is that the pattern of filtration is always the same and it is very evident.

 

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Edited April 26, 2022 by beto

[plaidshirts]

On 4/24/2022 at 6:31 AM, beto said:

Thanks for your feedback.
In post #7 and #10 is the light leak pattern, which always happens between two frames. I don't see a red halo. My last roll has, after liquid electrical tape over the strap rivets, exactly the same pattern as always.
Other possibilities I can think of is that at some speed the dragging of the curtain in and out leaves a moment of light entry at one edge or that it may come from some perforation such as from the lever to release the rewind, etc. It doesn't happen in every photo, but it can be about 3 pairs on a roll.

 

Did this ever get resolved?

I had a similarly shaped but much worse leak in my M2. Since it doesn't have a self timer, there's a light shield there and mine wasn't set properly, letting some light in. Does your M3 have a self timer lever? I only mention it because it looks so similar to mine - a wedge shape overlapping 2 frames.

Anyway, DAG fixed mine. I wish you good luck.

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Hallo,

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