ho_co Posted July 18, 2007 Share #21 Posted July 18, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here is a pic of the back of the lens. That looks like a focus cam ramp to me - anyone agree? Wilson-- Despite others' opinions, I say it's coupled. Looks to me as if the black ring is the focus cam. Speaking of the Zeiss M-mount lenses in general, E Puts says at http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c016.html: "The rangefinder curves follow the Voigtlander approach: the curves are painted black and not individually machined to match the movement of the cam follower. With the ZM lenses a different technique is used: the double helicoid is matched in pairs with a screw in a slot to adjust the distance. It is a matter of taste whether you like the naked look of the Leica lenses where you can actually see the rear mount or the Voigtlander method where the rear mount is disguised." Of course, it may just be part of the focus mount. In the tech PDFs, the diagrams of 15 and 18 look quite similar in regard to that item. But gosh--is that mounting dot really blue? I do prefer the yellow and white Leica engraving to the Zeiss red and white, but this time is the first time I've noticed the color of the raised mounting dot. Ugh. (IMO) --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 Hi ho_co, Take a look here Change my 21/2.8 Biogon for a18/4 Distagon??. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pluton Posted July 18, 2007 Share #22 Posted July 18, 2007 Being a Distagon means it's a retrofocus design, so there's no rangefinder coupling. Wrong...-KB- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted July 18, 2007 Share #23 Posted July 18, 2007 I should have an answer to this tomorrow. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share #24 Posted July 18, 2007 HI Wilson - I've just been looking at Robert White's website (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk), and they are pretty scrupulous about mentioning if a lens is NOT rangefinder coupled - no word here suggests very strongly that it is coupled. Give them a ring - they'll certainly know. Jono, I emailed RW last night so hopefully I will get an answer today. I also asked what bayonet it has, as if I want to hand code it as a WATE, it will need a 28/90 bayonet to activate lens recognition. As far as I can see they are the only people listing it with a price. I contacted my usual supplier in HK (Deacons) and they have not been able to get any yet. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share #25 Posted July 18, 2007 Wilsom, I think your money is burning a hole in your pocket. Looking through the Frankenfinder, the difference between 18mm and 21mm is not that great and I certainly wouldn't give up a stop of speed for just a slightly wider field of view. Mark, I would really like the 15mm Distagon or the WATE but there is not enough money burning a hole in my pocket for either of those ones unless I get bored with the Noctilux (unlikely) and sell it. If I get the 18mm, the 21 Biogon will be sold, so hopefully, I will not be hugely out of pocket on the transaction. It looks as it the 18 Distagon is not generally available yet, so that will solve the problem anyway. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted July 18, 2007 Share #26 Posted July 18, 2007 Wilson, there's a clear trade-off between angle of view and speed and as Sean scolded me, it is a matter of personal preference. I was surprised how big the lens is, just 4mm less diameter than a Nocti though 12mm or so shorter than a WATE. Odd filter size too - 58mm and it's not clear whether a step up ring to a Leica 60mm would work because it would move the filter forwards. Maybe B+W do a 58, I haven't checked, maybe you won't want to use a filter on this lens. It's an interesting lens because something similar from Leica must at least be a possibility in the future to provide a lower cost wide-angle solution below the 28/2.8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share #27 Posted July 18, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wilson, there's a clear trade-off between angle of view and speed and as Sean scolded me, it is a matter of personal preference. I was surprised how big the lens is, just 4mm less diameter than a Nocti though 12mm or so shorter than a WATE. Odd filter size too - 58mm and it's not clear whether a step up ring to a Leica 60mm would work because it would move the filter forwards. Maybe B+W do a 58, I haven't checked, maybe you won't want to use a filter on this lens. It's an interesting lens because something similar from Leica must at least be a possibility in the future to provide a lower cost wide-angle solution below the 28/2.8. Mark, I have just had an email back from Robert White. They also confirm that it is not released yet. They are expecting it to be rangefinder coupled. B+W do a 58mm 486, available from Kiesewetter or my usual source Michael Huppert. The barrel of the lens is not that big but it has a flare at the front to accommodate the front element a bit like the old Exacta 18-28mm zoom. By the time you have bought a JM adapter, it will not be that much more expensive than the CV15. If Leica ever did something along these lines I am guessing it would be nearer to GBP2,000 than GBP1,000 at which point I would feel I might as spend a little more and get a WATE. I think Leica would reason along the same lines and for this reason, I feel it is unlikely. My ex-Zeiss 'deep throat' says that the delay is due to the fact that they have now decided to make this lens in Japan and not Germany. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 18, 2007 Share #28 Posted July 18, 2007 Odd filter size too - 58mm It's a pretty common size in the Canon line-up. There shouldn't be any problem finding B+W filters to fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted July 18, 2007 Share #29 Posted July 18, 2007 The B+W filters might need correction, since the M8 expects the slightly weaker Leica filters at least below 24mm or so. For anyone who want a low-maintenance lens, I would wait for the reviews before deciding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share #30 Posted July 18, 2007 The B+W filters might need correction, since the M8 expects the slightly weaker Leica filters at least below 24mm or so. For anyone who want a low-maintenance lens, I would wait for the reviews before deciding. SEAN!! Are you receiving? Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted July 18, 2007 Share #31 Posted July 18, 2007 Seems incredible that Zeiss announced this lens at Photokina and it's still not available 10 months later (oh, alright for you pedants, 9 months and 3 weeks next Tuesday). They've announced the 85/2 has started production (after a similarly extended gestation period) and they are also starting a second batch of the 15/2.8, asking people to be patient. Life seems quite relaxed in Oberkochen... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share #32 Posted July 18, 2007 Seems incredible that Zeiss announced this lens at Photokina and it's still not available 10 months later (oh, alright for you pedants, 9 months and 3 weeks next Tuesday). They've announced the 85/2 has started production (after a similarly extended gestation period) and they are also starting a second batch of the 15/2.8, asking people to be patient. Life seems quite relaxed in Oberkochen... Mark, Remember that those last two lenses are the only ZM's made in Overcooking and if my source is right the transfer of the 18/4 to Nagano (I wonder if they had any earthquake damage earlier this week) is bound to cause a delay. The 85/2 was also redesigned after I am told the bokeh on the Mk 1 was horrible plus it had flare problems. The Bokeh was not at all nice on my 90 Sonnar G and it flared, so that does not come as a surprise to me. If I had been in Zeiss' shoes, I would have been tempted to develop a Planar based 85mm RF lens rather than a Sonnar. Their 85 Planar's are wonderful lenses. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumshoecamus Posted July 19, 2007 Share #33 Posted July 19, 2007 hello everyone I have just had an email from zeiss in germany -- the 18/4 is rangefinder coupled and available end of august. dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 19, 2007 Author Share #34 Posted July 19, 2007 hello everyoneI have just had an email from zeiss in germany -- the 18/4 is rangefinder coupled and available end of august. dave Thanks for the info Dave. That is what I was hoping to hear but I still might wait to read some reviews. The old 18/4 Distagon was one of Zeiss's very few dogs but I think it was designed for the Contarex in the 1950's when ultra wide angle lens design was in its infancy and they were still using Burroughs mechanical comptometers to do the calculations. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted July 19, 2007 Share #35 Posted July 19, 2007 SEAN!! Are you receiving? Wilson Anything is possible. <G> Zeiss tells me the ZM 18/4.0 is rangefinder coupled. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted July 19, 2007 Share #36 Posted July 19, 2007 Mark, Remember that those last two lenses are the only ZM's made in Overcooking and if my source is right the transfer of the 18/4 to Nagano (I wonder if they had any earthquake damage earlier this week) is bound to cause a delay. The 85/2 was also redesigned after I am told the bokeh on the Mk 1 was horrible plus it had flare problems. The Bokeh was not at all nice on my 90 Sonnar G and it flared, so that does not come as a surprise to me. If I had been in Zeiss' shoes, I would have been tempted to develop a Planar based 85mm RF lens rather than a Sonnar. Their 85 Planar's are wonderful lenses. Wilson The 85 is here now and once the other 90s arrive (today?) I'll be able to start testing (Sat. - traveling today and Fri.) Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted July 19, 2007 Share #37 Posted July 19, 2007 Zeiss tells me the ZM 18/4.0 is rangefinder coupled. I'm glad to be proven wrong, Sean ... but have you asked what has prevented them from making the Distagon 15 coupled as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted July 19, 2007 Share #38 Posted July 19, 2007 Thanks for the info Dave. That is what I was hoping to hear but I still might wait to read some reviews. The old 18/4 Distagon was one of Zeiss's very few dogs but I think it was designed for the Contarex in the 1950's when ultra wide angle lens design was in its infancy and they were still using Burroughs mechanical comptometers to do the calculations. Wilson I saw some pictures taken with it on a Japanese website (usual trade show pics - interior/exterior of convention hall, etc) and it appeared to do quite well, though hard to tell from just that. I have a feeling it will be a good, maybe not fantastic lens (like the Leica 24 it will essentially be replicating for the M8) but for the price it's well likely to end up in my bag long before the WATE. And I already have a Leica 24 finder so its kind of a no brainer. Yeah, it would be nice if it was a stop faster, but then again it would be nice if the M8 was full frame. It is what it is. 58 filters are easy to find - Canon and Mamiya 6/7 both use them. It's actually Leica that deals in the odd sizes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 19, 2007 Share #39 Posted July 19, 2007 I have a feeling it will be a good, maybe not fantastic lens (like the Leica 24 it will essentially be replicating for the M8)... Hmmm, I'd hardly describe the M 24mm as 'good maybe not fantastic' <grin> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted July 19, 2007 Share #40 Posted July 19, 2007 ... the only ZM's made in Overcooking ... Wilson--"Overcooking"--Love it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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