Overgaard Posted July 17, 2007 Share #1 Posted July 17, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) In reading http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/29126-who-still-using-their-5d-along.html I came to think, why doesn't Leica organize a really big "lend a M8" campaign amongst professionals. As one said, a lot of pro photographers using dSLR are very interested in the M8, but idea of buying one seem far to them. Whenever I use a Digilux 2, I always get one or more photographers approaching and saying "nice camera" and asking questions. Little do they know. But when I look at the final results at the wire or in the paper later, the D2 produces as great (and often better) results than the dSLR (one reason is that you have to try harder not having a large zoom). The occasions where a large zoom or tele IS needed are few (I don't do sports photos at all) Many would like to have a simpler tool than a dSLR, something that does not frighten people like a large dSLR does. They also admire the soundless photographing. Even a dSLR is far from the sound of the good old Nikon F3 motorized tank, you still notice the distinct sound of a dSLR across a room. I don't get that they don't just buy one. Then again, I have had long conversations with pro photographers telling how they love Leica and Hasselblad - but how expensive it is. Which is not true. Great glasses as the Canon 200mm F/1.8 goes for the same prices as Leica 180mm F/2.0. A Leica M8 house is less than a Canon Mark III. I just think they don't know. I think the experience so far with the M8 should tell that when someone gets a M8 in his or her hands for some weeks, they won't let go of it again. So perhaps "lend a Leica M8 for a month" would be a way to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 Hi Overgaard, Take a look here Let them try it .... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 17, 2007 Share #2 Posted July 17, 2007 Nikon did that in the sixties- it really got their SLR's going. It must have made them many millions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhsimmonds Posted July 17, 2007 Share #3 Posted July 17, 2007 Yes, but for it to work as a marketing tool, the product has to keep working for at least the month!!! Looking at the M8 forum this is less than certain? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 17, 2007 Share #4 Posted July 17, 2007 Yes, but for it to work as a marketing tool, the product has to keep working for at least the month!!! Looking at the M8 forum this is less than certain? Not many dying M8's on this forum these days now. I fear this kind of post has been overtaken by reality.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted July 17, 2007 Share #5 Posted July 17, 2007 Yes, but for it to work as a marketing tool, the product has to keep working for at least the month!!! Looking at the M8 forum this is less than certain? Sorry but that is not the case. I have owned 3 M8's. First one was replaced for irregularities with the sensor, had nothing to do with image quality, and a faulty body shell but in the 5 month that I had that one it never failed or failed to work in any way. The replacement has been going strong for 1+ months and the second bought M8 has been the same. Until you own one you really shouldn't comment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted July 17, 2007 Share #6 Posted July 17, 2007 I guess no one should comment because the lucky ones could never speak for those who had problems, and those who suffered do not represent those lucky ones either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 17, 2007 Share #7 Posted July 17, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Actually that's pretty accurate if you want to draw any firm conclusions, rather than just speculate on the problems. Nothing wrong with speculation provided it's recognised as such. At the risk of turning this into another 'M8 failure' thread, the only people who can really say what the failure rate for the M8 has been are Leica themselves, and I doubt that they'll be publishing that. Anectdotal evidence only indicates that some people have had problems, it doesn't say how widespread the problems have been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted July 17, 2007 Share #8 Posted July 17, 2007 As one said, a lot of pro photographers using dSLR are very interested in the M8, but idea of buying one seem far to them. I think the experience so far with the M8 should tell that when someone gets a M8 in his or her hands for some weeks, they won't let go of it again. So perhaps "lend a Leica M8 for a month" would be a way to go. Actually I was the one who said it, regarding not "a lot" but several (5-6) acquaintances of mine who are professionals. In fact I lent my M8 (the latest one of three, which is still working after 3,5 months) to each of them for a day, along with their choice of lenses from my substantial collection (allright, not the rare ones ) It was after using the M8 that they expressed either no desire or a negative desire to buy one. Price was a factor not in the absolute, because all own one or more Canon 1D-II bodies, but in the sense of it being a lot to pay for the limited applicability of a rangefinder for their work. (These fellows aren't of a mind to fuss with a Visoflex). Three of these gentlemen were extensive users of Leica rangefinders in the days of film, and those three were quite off-put by the (their words) "serious" discrepancy between framelines and capture compared to the M6/7. None of them were convinced that the M8's output was up to that of the Mark-II. These fellows have extensive practise processing the Canon RAW files to their maximum potential and obviously none processing the M8's, so that must be taken into account. The last trepidation they expressed, universally I may add, was not in reference to the fallibility of the camera (which they recognize is inevitable and have had failures with their own equipment) but questioned Leica's ability/intent to provide fast service and/or temporary replacement of the camera, as they are accustomed to in dealing with Canon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 17, 2007 Share #9 Posted July 17, 2007 There is Pro service given by Leica and it's just not a widely published service but it is in place and i have used it and continue to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 17, 2007 Share #10 Posted July 17, 2007 Well, considering Vinay's post maybe they should publicize it. Having said that, professionals form but a small proportion of sales for any camera manufacturer (except, I suppose, in the MF market), so are interesting for marketeers only as high-profiles sales ambassadors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talus Posted July 17, 2007 Share #11 Posted July 17, 2007 if leica would lend me an M8 for a month I would happily accept it and most likey send them a check at the end of that month so I could keep it. maybe it's not such a good idea then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gesper Posted July 17, 2007 Share #12 Posted July 17, 2007 I would be happy if they would just lend me one while they are fixing mine. Since buying it in November, they have had mine in their possession more than I have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 17, 2007 Share #13 Posted July 17, 2007 It is a bit sad - the bulk of complaints about customer service seems to be coming from the US and UK. Those of us that deal with Solms directly seem as a rule to be happy, with only the odd exception. Whilst it is understandable that customs officialdom hampers the style of the USA branch, I do think that Leica should rethink its dealership structure. In the car world, if an importer or dealership gets consistently low customer satisfaction, they will soon be looking for another brand to represent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted July 17, 2007 Share #14 Posted July 17, 2007 I have always had great service dealing with leica NJ, never a issue and my gear comes back fixed. What many of folks don't know is what goes on behind the public to end users. There are many on this board that know exactly what i am talking about. The good stuff just not get talked about, no doubt some bad situations happen and there slammed but it is all not doom and gloom as much as talked about here, there is a big number that goes to the good side. You have to keep some of this in prespective, and yes a lot of bad has happened to me. So I do know where the bad part is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemayeux Posted July 17, 2007 Share #15 Posted July 17, 2007 I have always had great service dealing with leica NJ, never a issue and my gear comes back fixed. What many of folks don't know is what goes on behind the public to end users. There are many on this board that know exactly what i am talking about. The good stuff just not get talked about, no doubt some bad situations happen and there slammed but it is all not doom and gloom as much as talked about here, there is a big number that goes to the good side. You have to keep some of this in prespective, and yes a lot of bad has happened to me. So I do know where the bad part is. Leica NJ has done nothing to get my vote of confidence. I sent two lenses in - they rec'd them March 3. Third week of April I finally find out they have to go to Solms. Third week of May I call and they say one has been fixed under warranty, I give credit card number for the other repair. Mid June I call, Sarah tells me they had shipped back to the U.S. and she'll have them that week. The end of the following week I call to find out where they are and Sarah tells me they are still in Solms, haven't been repaired, doesn't know when they will be repaired. Then she denies that she told me that they had already shipped. Just left Robert a message - if things run as they have in the past - I'll get no return call. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gesper Posted July 17, 2007 Share #16 Posted July 17, 2007 Part of the problem has to do with an antiquated way of doing business. You call/email NJ with a problem. After a couple of days, they email you to send it back. You send it back, it waits until until their next batch is ready to go to Germany. It then goes through customs, etc. to get to Solms. Solms takes some time to look at it. They MAIL you (Germany to US!) a letter with the price to repair, which you are supposed to then mail back to them with authorization and payment information. (These steps alone could be taken care of in one day by email.) If it should have been a warranty claim, you send more emails. NJ gets involved. Finally, they decide that it is covered by warranty. Now it goes into repair. Eventually it gets shipped in the next batch back to NJ. NJ receives the shipment and reships back to you. By the time this is done, you are talking two to three months (literally). Who else does business this way in this day and age? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trs Posted July 17, 2007 Share #17 Posted July 17, 2007 My experience with both Solms and NJ has been very good as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted July 17, 2007 Share #18 Posted July 17, 2007 By the time this is done, you are talking two to three months (literally). Who else does business this way in this day and age? Nikon for one. Maybe not as bad as Leica because Nikon actually has a REAL repair centers here in the USA. One on the east coast and one on the west. But when I sent a body and then a lens to Nikon for repair/service under warranty I got the items back 2 day before I got a SNAIL MAIL letter stating that the repairs would be covered under warranty. That took about 3 weeks from ship date until the items were returned and if I had to wait for the letter to OK the repair it would of been 6 or 7 weeks if not longer before I got them back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gesper Posted July 17, 2007 Share #19 Posted July 17, 2007 Contrast with Sony. I had to return a $3,000 high end CD/SACD player for warranty repair. I contacted them by email. They responded within 24 hours and sent me a prepaid label by email. I sent the player directly to their repair center in California. It was at the center less than a week before they shipped it back. Don't get me wrong, I think the people at Leica are great and doing their best, but there is no excuse for me having a $90+ UPS bill (twice) for warranty work, having to wait for transocean snail mail, having to wait for batched shipments, and having to wait days for email responses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted July 17, 2007 Share #20 Posted July 17, 2007 What does the Leica Pro service cover and how can one register for/use it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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