Another Leica conversion question

[tranquilo67]

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Good morning,

I would kind ask for your feedback on my Leica I converted to Leica II (and no, I don't want any valuation or anything like that). The only accessory I've added is the black enamel lens cap (Nice, isn't it?).

What I know so far:

- Camera serial#17996. Everything knobs etc. are in nickel (the yellowish cast of the nickel cannot be well appreciated in the pictures). Open/Close marked in the bottom plate (export version). Has an O engraved on the mount. According to Leica, the camera was originally shipped on April the 17th 1929 to the former agency Ernst Leitz in London.

- Lens serial#156508. It's the eighth lens of the first well documented batch of this lens (I do know there are a lot of no-serial, short serials and long serials before this batch). Nickel, 7 o'clock with an O engraved on the back and a small 6 also engraved (close to the focusing knob). Scale in feet (coherent with the export version of the camera). According to Leica, the lens was originally shipped on May the 31st 1933 to the same address.

Unfortunately there is no information about the conversion date of the camera. So my guess is that the camera received this lens when standardized and converted to II (a bit strange due to the original lens could also have been converted). My guess is due to, as per my understanding the conversion looks like to be done around that date (first half 1933) an the fact that the brassing in the camera knobs and other parts it's really similar to the one in the lens (I know this is not a scientific method but if you have some old stuff you know what I mean).

So any information/comment specially around the conversion and your thoughts about the lens (if it belongs to this camera), would be really appreciated.

I haven't mentioned that the camera works as a charm and the external condition is simply great (at least to my eyes). Much better than what I can capture in this photos.

Thank you in advance and best regards

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Edited November 7, 2018 by tranquilo67
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[jerzy]

Hi,

as you correctly said the lens was not originally on this camera. This was IA with fix mounted Elmar, no SN. You current lens was most probably initially shipped as 7 o'clock. Usually, with convertions from IA the lens was retained and placed in newer, interchangeable mount and no SN was assigned to lens

It could very well be that the body was converted in 1933, as you write. The photos are however pretty dark, I cannot see details. Following details are needed: middle, front viewer window (if with step or not), rewind lever, vulcanite structure,  pin on body shell to hook on the bottom plate and bottom of the camera with bottom plate taken off.

There are more details which could help in determining conversion date however this requires camera to be taken apart.

You may send photos directly to my email: jerzy.w@gmx.net to avoid resizing the photos for Forum.

[willeica]

I agree with Jerzy. This was a conversion from the early years of the II Model D, where, unusually , the original lens was replaced by a later  Elmar with an SN. The information you have from Leica relates to the original IA issue. Leica may have a separate information stream about upgrades, but I have not seen this. Perhaps one might emerge as the Leica Archives develop.

William

[tranquilo67]

14 hours ago, jerzy said:

Hi,

as you correctly said the lens was not originally on this camera. This was IA with fix mounted Elmar, no SN. You current lens was most probably initially shipped as 7 o'clock. Usually, with convertions from IA the lens was retained and placed in newer, interchangeable mount and no SN was assigned to lens

It could very well be that the body was converted in 1933, as you write. The photos are however pretty dark, I cannot see details. Following details are needed: middle, front viewer window (if with step or not), rewind lever, vulcanite structure,  pin on body shell to hook on the bottom plate and bottom of the camera with bottom plate taken off.

There are more details which could help in determining conversion date however this requires camera to be taken apart.

You may send photos directly to my email: jerzy.w@gmx.net to avoid resizing the photos for Forum.

Hi Jerzy,

First of all, thank you very much for your comments and your offer. You already have some pictures in your inbox.

And that's exactly what I thought. It's strange to get a new lens assigned to the upgraded body but on the other hand, it would be a coincidence to have everything so related. Once more, what leads me to think that it was given the lens at the conversion time (apart from time coincidence) is the similar brassing in the lens and in the camera knobs.

Anyway, thank you for your time and comments.

 

10 hours ago, willeica said:

I agree with Jerzy. This was a conversion from the early years of the II Model D, where, unusually , the original lens was replaced by a later  Elmar with an SN. The information you have from Leica relates to the original IA issue. Leica may have a separate information stream about upgrades, but I have not seen this. Perhaps one might emerge as the Leica Archives develop.

William

Hi William,

Yes, it's a pity that there is no more information about conversions but on the other hand we cannot complain about the detailed information in Leica records. No other brand can provide you such amount of information and even more if we consider that we're talking about 90 years old camera and lens.

Thank you for your comment!!

[Giuliobigazzi]

Resurrecting this old thread as I am doing some research into two of my own cameras. Hard to tell from the photos but it looks like the serial engraving on this camera is English style, where the number one is just a line and the four is closed. The no. Engraving is also slightly different, with a more oval shape rather than circle usually. Both of my cameras have this same style engraving, Elmars lenses that are not their original ones, just like on yours, and also do not appear in the repair book at the factory. Both delivered to Leitz London. 
It certainly looks like these conversions were done in London, maybe in wartime when the factory was too heavily involved in providing for the war. I have seen numerous of these conversions, up to wartime serials, but not found any more info on the subject. It would be good to see other conversions like this out there, to narrow down a timeframe. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Giuliobigazzi
Addition

[willeica]

The main British conversions were in the late 1920s, but these related to lenses and lens mounts as seen in my recent article here.

 

34314 Leica Society Magazine Issue 49 Winter 2023 LENSES.pdf34314 Leica Society Magazine Issue 49 Winter 2023 LENSES.pdf

 

I am not aware that Leitz conversions to various Leica models were done in London, but details, of any such conversions, would bear appreciated.

William 

[jc_braconi]

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In my archives I found that one:
 

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