Scanning slides and negatives using a camera

[sblitz]

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15 hours ago, verwackelt said:

Same with me. Do not want to join the Zuckerberg hordes…
I simulate the plug in with the levels in C1 but i found its result meh.
The contrasts were ok, but i found the color differentiation not  so pleasing.

Same here ....

[bags27]

I've become a bit (too) obsessed with scanning lately. It started when I bought my dream camera, a Mamiya 7, and realized that scanning 6x7 negatives with a cropped sensor (CL) wasn't doing justice to MF negatives. Eventually, I bought a used Fuji GFX R (MF 50 mps), pairing it with a Mamiya 645 120 f/4 macro. Took me a bit to get it working the way I want (the harsh reality of the Fuji UI compared with Leica's amazing UI). Next was to take multiple photos to stitch them (stitching can be tricky with lots of sky or water--which is what I usually shoot--but is a lot easier with a MF sensor than with a cropped one).

This is my first attempt: a 500 mps raw file, reduced here to under 2 mps jpg, so the detail is decidedly muted. I think I can do better, as I learn how to edit the photos more precisely before stitching them.

I don't know if it's worth the trouble and cost. I may send a negative out for commercial drum scanning and compare it to what I can do this way, just to see the difference. Thanks for looking. HP5 in HC110 18 minutes (Ansel Adams modified standing method)

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Edited February 23, 2021 by bags27

[IkarusJohn]

I can’t believe it’s 6 years ago that I started this thread.  I’ve tried scanning a few times since, and given up in disgust.  Finally, under pressure from my partner, I’ve taken the boxes out from under my desk, sorted them through, and run some scans through my Plustech scanner, and they have been terrible - I suspect some dust has got into the scanner, or something has just died from neglect.  I then dragged out my Epsom V700, and I seem to have lost the power cable and the cable to connect to my computer.

So many friends have told me to just give up and use my SL - even if I get my scanners going, it’s a laborious process.

It seems that the simplest approach is to use a Nikon ES-2 film holder with a 1:1 macro lens and light box.  That sounds like the quickest and easiest plan.  The only thing is, which lens? I could use a Nikon F mount lens (I have a Novoflex LET/NIK adapter), but it needs to be macro and manual focus; alternatively, I could use an R-macro (I have the Leica R-L adapter), but again the lens needs to be 1:1.

The ES-2 adapter is 62mm, and has an adapter (I also have adapters with my Firecrest filter set which may work).  The APO Elmarit-R 2.8/100 macro has a 60mm filter mount, but needs the ELPRO adapter.

Alternatively, could I use the ES-2 on an M lens, with the macro-adapter?  Any thoughts?  Whatever solution, I would prefer to end up with something relatively simple.  I’ll have another look at Godfrey’s set up …

[250swb]

@IkarusJohn anything would be better than your V700 which only has an optical resolution of 2300dpi despite the headline figures. There is now a similar product to the ES-2 made by JJC and it's much cheaper. With the savings you could almost buy a Nikon 60mm f/2.8D micro lens that will do 1+1 and with a flat field both essential for copying negs and slides. Make yourself comfy and you should be able to get a fast workflow going. That is the simplest way I can think of. But keep your V700, it's still good for digital contact sheets.

Edited October 14, 2024 by 250swb

[IkarusJohn]

On 10/14/2024 at 8:34 PM, 250swb said:

@IkarusJohn anything would be better than your V700 which only has an optical resolution of 2300dpi despite the headline figures. There is now a similar product to the ES-2 made by JJC and it's much cheaper. With the savings you could almost buy a Nikon 60mm f/2.8D micro lens that will do 1+1 and with a flat field both essential for copying negs and slides. Make yourself comfy and you should be able to get a fast workflow going. That is the simplest way I can think of. But keep your V700, it's still good for digital contact sheets.

Thanks Steve, I think I have a solution.

SL > R-L Adapter > APO Elmarit-R 100/2.8 > JJC Adapter & LED set.  I might see if I can find a mounting rail to hold everything together.

I’ve also found an ELPRO for a reasonable price, which I might be able to use for 120mm scanning.  

Cheers
John

[250swb]

25 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Thanks Steve, I think I have a solution.

SL > R-L Adapter > APO Elmarit-R 100/2.8 > JJC Adapter & LED set.  I might see if I can find a mounting rail to hold everything together.

I’ve also found an ELPRO for a reasonable price, which I might be able to use for 120mm scanning.  

Cheers
John

If you have the 1+1 adapter for the Elmarit R it would work, but they are a lot more money than a Nikkor with no appreciable difference in quality.

But you've thrown a spanner in the works by saying you want to do 120 scanning, to which the answer would be don't bother with the JJC etc. and get a copy stand with a light pad, the macro lens, and a pair of negative holders for the formats you want to scan.

[IkarusJohn]

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43 minutes ago, 250swb said:

If you have the 1+1 adapter for the Elmarit R it would work, but they are a lot more money than a Nikkor with no appreciable difference in quality.

But you've thrown a spanner in the works by saying you want to do 120 scanning, to which the answer would be don't bother with the JJC etc. and get a copy stand with a light pad, the macro lens, and a pair of negative holders for the formats you want to scan.

I’ve found the Elmarit and ELPRO at good prices (an estate sale, by the look of it - a massive amount of gear).  I’ll start with the mountain of Kodachrome slides before I start down the 120 route.  For the latter, I’ll see if I can get the V700 working.  That’s a long way down the track!

Edited October 15, 2024 by IkarusJohn

[IkarusJohn]

Update

Well, after giving up on the Plustec scanner, I purchased a JJC adapter kit, with LED light source (thanks for the guidance  @250swb), and coupled that with my SL(601) and a Sigma DG DN 105/2.8 Macro Art lens, and all is good!  Scanning has never been so straightforward!

The next issue, if course, is converting negative images into positives in LR ...

[250swb]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

 

The next issue, if course, is converting negative images into positives in LR ...

Negative Lab Pro is the usual plugin for converting negatives in Lightroom (it doesn't work in Photoshop), but there are others available such as Negmaster and Smart Convert by Filmomat.

[LocalHero1953]

There are a number of other threads on the forum with up to date advice on camera scanning equipment and on inverting both B&W and colour. It's worth having a look around.

I do my inverting myself - B&W is simple, and I worked out a batch process for colour. I have Negative Lab Pro, but didn't get on with it. It does the job but is too much of a black box process for my liking.

Edited November 3, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[250swb]

I've started using SmartConvert recently (after years of using ColorPerfect) which is a standalone programme and it compares well with Negmaster but is simpler to use both for individual images or batch processing. Being standalone it has no conflicts with any other editing programme which is why I've never used Negative Lab Pro.

[chris_tribble]

@IkarusJohn - just bought the JJC set up with led light source. I’d be grateful if you could post a shot of how you’ve set this up and a sample or two!  I’ll be using mine with SL2 and Panasonic 100mm f2.8 macro.

[Steve Ash]

Next level:

https://shop.filmomat.eu/products/135-autocarrier

[chris_tribble]

32 minutes ago, Steve Ash said:

Next level:

https://shop.filmomat.eu/products/135-autocarrier

Interesting, but it looks more relevant for people with lots of roll film.  My archive is either slides or 6 frame positive or negative strips…I used the Niko LS 4000 for years, but (despite a clean and refurb) I don’t think mine can beat a DSLR scan. Looking forward to getting the JJC kit…

[250swb]

21 minutes ago, Steve Ash said:

Next level:

https://shop.filmomat.eu/products/135-autocarrier

For the person who's life would be transformed by being able to scan a roll of 36 at 3fps! Not sure who this is aimed at really, maybe the rich man, but then it wouldn't do their Hasselblad X Pan negs, or a mini lab for speed, but then it still wouldn't do 120. I suspect it's made for new converts to film who feel the need to maintain the frantic pace of image acquisition. It should have a warning label attached, 'Calm Down'.

[pop]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

For the person who's life would be transformed by being able to scan a roll of 36 at 3fps! Not sure who this is aimed at really, maybe the rich man, but then it wouldn't do their Hasselblad X Pan negs, or a mini lab for speed, but then it still wouldn't do 120. I suspect it's made for new converts to film who feel the need to maintain the frantic pace of image acquisition. It should have a warning label attached, 'Calm Down'.

I take it, then, that the same device would be perfectly all right at that price if it only scanned one frame per minute instead of three per second?

[250swb]

1 minute ago, pop said:

I take it, then, that the same device would be perfectly all right at that price if it only scanned one frame per minute instead of three per second?

What an odd assumption to make? Are you are the person that needs to scan at 3fps? In which case I have no objection if the price point and the need have found a customer. I simply doubt the average amateur has the amount of film and such a shortage of time to justify buying minilab type equipment when other types of negative holders are in use and perfectly adequate for making digital contact sheets and final scans. Filomat products are geared towards high throughput, standardised chemical use, and rotational processing so it isn't unusual for the 'Autocarrier' to be part of that equipment list. But are you sure amateurs really work like that? Aren't they always wanting to try different types of film and developers in small batches or single rolls? I know some amateurs like to think if they surround themselves with equipment verging on the professional standard it's a win-win. But I think 9 out of 10 are new to film photography and while feeling safer with automation have never enjoyed the versatility and creativity of deciding what their single roll of Tri-X is going to be developed in this time around. I'm sure some like yourself will feel that taking 12 seconds to auto scan a roll of film against three or four minutes with conventional neg holders is great value for the money, I don't because perspective gets lost, like how long did it take to develop the film, or even how long did it take to shoot it, and you are worried about an extra four minutes? 

[pop]

It was you who singled out the speed of the device among all other properties.

Anyway, I don't think they cater to the amateur market with that thing. Off the top of my head, I can think of two use cases where the device might be very attractive and cost-effective.

One: If you have to digitize (or even only take inventory of) a largish stock of 135 film rolls, that product could make quite a difference. I have ordered two historical archives, and had they contained an appreciable number of 35mm film rolls, I'd certainly considered buying a scanning device at that price.

Two: Photo labs are becoming rare. For anyone planning to start a lab, perhaps only part-time, such a device could become very handy, particularly on account that it doesn't need any fancy infrastructure and that it can be stored in a drawer when not in use.

In both use cases the processing speed would make the appliance very useful. In the twelve seconds it takes to digitize one roll, you can unpack, re-pack and label another one. This yields a very efficient work flow which would minimize the chances of any errors. If you had to start the scanning of a roll, then go and do something else while the scanner takes several minutes to do one roll, chances for mistakes would multiply.

[250swb]

On 11/14/2024 at 3:39 PM, pop said:

It was you who singled out the speed of the device among all other properties.

Anyway, I don't think they cater to the amateur market with that thing. Off the top of my head, I can think of two use cases where the device might be very attractive and cost-effective.

One: If you have to digitize (or even only take inventory of) a largish stock of 135 film rolls, that product could make quite a difference. I have ordered two historical archives, and had they contained an appreciable number of 35mm film rolls, I'd certainly considered buying a scanning device at that price.

Two: Photo labs are becoming rare. For anyone planning to start a lab, perhaps only part-time, such a device could become very handy, particularly on account that it doesn't need any fancy infrastructure and that it can be stored in a drawer when not in use.

In both use cases the processing speed would make the appliance very useful. In the twelve seconds it takes to digitize one roll, you can unpack, re-pack and label another one. This yields a very efficient work flow which would minimize the chances of any errors. If you had to start the scanning of a roll, then go and do something else while the scanner takes several minutes to do one roll, chances for mistakes would multiply.

You seem to be doing that internet thing where you copy in principle much of what I said but make it sound like you are saying it first.

The device is for a mini lab, and that would justify the price if they scanned the film before cutting it into lengths of six. But most people dealing with their own archive or old family negatives already have them in lengths of six or even five, or they have mounted slides which it can’t do. I think in my lifetime I can’t remember when film was returned from the lab in rolls unless a rare request. So it’s basically pointless for anybody thinking of digitising a personal archive or family pictures. So I bring you back to your comment “I take it, then, that the same device would be perfectly all right at that price if it only scanned one frame per minute instead of three per second?” and say it’s useless on any level for a home scanning system irrespective of speed unless there is a specialist application.

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[IkarusJohn]

On 11/14/2024 at 9:42 AM, chris_tribble said:

@IkarusJohn - just bought the JJC set up with led light source. I’d be grateful if you could post a shot of how you’ve set this up and a sample or two!  I’ll be using mine with SL2 and Panasonic 100mm f2.8 macro.

Sorry, Chris.  Been busy.  I’ll get back to you shortly.