Nightmare with M10- Help

[waynexu1998]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I am sorry for what u have experienced.

 

Has anyone experienced this kind of problem? Could anyone explain to me what blocking Mr spice is talking about?

[Guest tofu_man]

I, m very sorry to express this here. Hope any could help me. I used to be a leica fan but i cant be more dissapointed and frustated

My dream has become nightmare

 

 

Sadly, I've had too many issues with Leica cameras & lenses over the years, and, in my experience, their quality control & service has been poor. I wish they had an optional pro service option or something like Apple Care.

 

The last couple of times when service responses didn't meet my expectations, I've politely emailed the head of Leica Customer Care (at the suggestion of Andreas Kaufmann), and he got things sorted out quite quickly.

 

I've sent you a message with his contact details.

 

Good luck !

Edited August 23, 2018 by tofu_man

[jaapv]

I contacted Leica and your case is being referred to the complaints management. Could you please PM me your name and camera's serial number?

[feelssadman]

Something like this shouldn't happen with any camera by any brand and I'm a bit disappointed to read that you've hit such a roadblock in a Leica customer chain. But hey, my username finally feels relevant. 

Great to see that the people in this forum support you though.

[Spice]

I,m impressed of all your support, many many thanks my friends!, hope to get a solution

[Spice]

Today i have been contacted and have a solution from Leica!! thanks leica and thank all this comunity for your inmediate help! Many many thanks

[Jeff S]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Great! What’s the solution?

 

Jeff

[Spice]

New camera, many thanks

[oka]

Sadly, I've had too many issues with Leica cameras & lenses over the years, and, in my experience, their quality control & service has been poor. I wish they had an optional pro service option or something like Apple Care.

 

The last couple of times when service responses didn't meet my expectations, I've politely emailed the head of Leica Customer Care (at the suggestion of Andreas Kaufmann), and he got things sorted out quite quickly.

 

I've sent you a message with his contact details.

 

Good luck !

 

This is exactly my experience as well, most of the Leica stuff I have bought when I switched from Canon was defective.

 

There are quite strict consumer laws in Europe but most of the Leica resellers can't comply with them on case of when product needs to be send to Germany. My dealer only can loan bodies but no lenses are available.

 

I have now accepted the reality that Leica stuff is mostly defective and needs to be send to the Germany at least for the calibration. Below are the devices which were defective from new.

 

2x M10 (defective sensor which needed replacement and other one needed RF adjustment)

21lux (loose hood)

28lux (problems with internal lens assembly causing the flaring, halo, ca...)

50lux BC (focus is off, loose aperture ring)

50apo (very loose aperture ring, large dust particles just under front element, focusing bit off)

90apo (very dusty inside)

 

...only 35cron BC and SL was perfect out of the box.

 

I have bought some used but those needed also servicing (75lux focusing way off, even that it was calibrated 1-2 years ago, 50 noct 0.95 bit loose aperture ring and focusing slightly off).

 

I don't think this is bad luck, this is just bad QC.

Edited August 23, 2018 by oka

[albertknappmd]

Remember... The SQUEAKY wheel gets the GREASE..

Go out there and make your case to the most senior people at Leica. Also have your dealer weigh in.

I am shocked at your story as Leica has always been very solicitous in the past from personal experience.

Albert     

[jaapv]

When I presented the case to my contact in Wetzlar it was very clear that something went very wrong somewhere and the matter was resolved properly within minutes. I'm sure that the OP would have gotten a satisfactory result as well, had he pressed on with a formal complaint.

 

It is one of Leica's strengths that  they are open to a personal approach.

[Gobert]

This is exactly my experience as well, most of the Leica stuff I have bought when I switched from Canon was defective.

 

There are quite strict consumer laws in Europe but most of the Leica resellers can't comply with them on case of when product needs to be send to Germany. My dealer only can loan bodies but no lenses are available.

I have now accepted the reality that Leica stuff is mostly defective and needs to be send to the Germany at least for the calibration. Below are the devices which were defective from new.

2x M10 (defective sensor which needed replacement and other one needed RF adjustment)

21lux (loose hood)

28lux (problems with internal lens assembly causing the flaring, halo, ca...)

50lux BC (focus is off, loose aperture ring)

50apo (very loose aperture ring, large dust particles just under front element, focusing bit off)

90apo (very dusty inside)

 

...only 35cron BC and SL was perfect out of the box.

 

I have bought some used but those needed also servicing (75lux focusing way off, even that it was calibrated 1-2 years ago, 50 noct 0.95 bit loose aperture ring and focusing slightly off).

I don't think this is bad luck, this is just bad QC.

Some people have always Leica gear problems, some people never.... You may guess to which category I belong.

[Arai]

When I presented the case to my contact in Wetzlar it was very clear that something went very wrong somewhere and the matter was resolved properly within minutes. I'm sure that the OP would have gotten a satisfactory result as well, had he pressed on with a formal complaint.

 

It is one of Leica's strengths that  they are open to a personal approach.

True Jaap, I was offered an replacement from my local dealer when my M10 had a missing frameline back then after a month of use..

I think that was my only issue with my Leica equipments so far. I never doubt their service even another brand like Canon, I greatly appreciate their service to customer..

[pgh]

When I presented the case to my contact in Wetzlar it was very clear that something went very wrong somewhere and the matter was resolved properly within minutes. I'm sure that the OP would have gotten a satisfactory result as well, had he pressed on with a formal complaint.

 

It is one of Leica's strengths that  they are open to a personal approach.

I suppose I should have been more aggressive when I got my M10 and I ended up without it for extended time periods twice right after purchasing due to it being sent in. As a result I have a camera that had defective electronics from the start, that the repair team missed on the first get go, and I am not confident it will hold up as it should. I haven't had any problems since the second repair, and while I wish they would have replaced my unit customer service was....decent - not great (as in it required follow ups on my part multiple times) with me. The difference between Leica customer service and Sony and Nikon customer service is that in my decade of professional work, I've never needed it from the other brands. I know Nikon is good, but really, it makes no difference to me because their cameras have always just worked! I've needed Leica for both of the digital M's I've purchased. 

 

I must agree with the assessment that I think Leica QC is subpar. I don't know the numbers, but they don't sell all that many cameras compared to the other brands, and the amount of complaints and the consistency of the faults are pretty impressive. Sure, most cameras they make probably work, but the ratio can't be all that good compared to the other manufacturers. I would really like to see the numbers regarding their acceptable QC standards. 

[youngjohn]

The internet is full of the 1% of people with problems, not the 99% who are happy. It’s unwise to estimate a company’s QC by posts on a forum.

[pgh]

The internet is full of the 1% of people with problems, not the 99% who are happy. It’s unwise to estimate a company’s QC by posts on a forum.

Which is why I said I'd like to see figures.

And having been on forums for other manufacturers, the rate and breadth of the issues with Leica (couple with my own personal experience in going 2/2 with problematic bodies, and the experience of people I know) it is at least a very curious thing that I would like to see quantified in some way versus other manufacturers. Until we know that I am left with my real life experience and impressions from the internet, which are better than nothing at all.  

[jaapv]

I suppose I should have been more aggressive when I got my M10 and I ended up without it for extended time periods twice right after purchasing due to it being sent in. As a result I have a camera that had defective electronics from the start, that the repair team missed on the first get go, and I am not confident it will hold up as it should. I haven't had any problems since the second repair, and while I wish they would have replaced my unit customer service was....decent - not great (as in it required follow ups on my part multiple times) with me. The difference between Leica customer service and Sony and Nikon customer service is that in my decade of professional work, I've never needed it from the other brands. I know Nikon is good, but really, it makes no difference to me because their cameras have always just worked! I've needed Leica for both of the digital M's I've purchased. 

 

I must agree with the assessment that I think Leica QC is subpar. I don't know the numbers, but they don't sell all that many cameras compared to the other brands, and the amount of complaints and the consistency of the faults are pretty impressive. Sure, most cameras they make probably work, but the ratio can't be all that good compared to the other manufacturers. I would really like to see the numbers regarding their acceptable QC standards. 

QC vs.QC  You must realize that there is a difference. If you produce tens or hundreds of thousands of cameras errors become systematic. Pull one camera in a thousand, test to destruction and find out what went wrong in the production process.

However, in a hand-assembly production line one has to deal with human error which is random. Testing to destruction is obviously impossible, one would need to have an inspector looking over the shoulder of each technician, and probably supervisors for the inspectors too.

This is the difference between hand-assembled and mass production. A Toyota will be fault-free from the dealer, a Morgan will need some TLC by the new owner.

 

So, if you could outline how Leica could improve their QC, I'm  sure they would be happy to hear from you in Wetzlar.

[IkarusJohn]

QA v QC?

[abrewer]

sorry to hear. but there is a reason, that press-photogs use sony, canon and nikon. they deliver!

 

They offer auto-focus and image stabilization. That's the only reason. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pico]

If you produce tens or hundreds of thousands

of cameras errors become systematic. Pull one camera in a thousand, test to destruction and find out what

went wrong in the production process. However, in a hand-assembly production line one has to deal with

human error which is random.

Testing to destruction is not appropriate to camera making. How would one do that in time to correct?

 

Random human error? QC should check that right away. I suspect very little QC is applied to assembled

units from Portugal, and we are justly skeptical of German assembled units.

Edited August 25, 2018 by pico