Magnification

[Teun]

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To you also a big thank you!! Lovely to know that companion Leica users will take their time to share knowledge.

Your answer to my question truly helped me!!!

[UliWer]

The most easiesr way to learn something about the optical viewfinder is to take a Leica M and look through it.

[LocalHero1953]

I could have mimicked a real diplomat and called it a polished turd, I suppose...

I could also respond with an ad hominem attack on you for your ignorance in considering Boris Johnson to be a real diplomat. But of course that would be at risk of starting a political discussion!

[jaapv]

  I'm sure that your irony detection systems match mine

I have read - and enjoyed, "An Utterly Impartial History of Britain"

[flf]

I have one question though:

With my Summilux 50 Asph, the viewfinder and the 50 framelines are more obstructed in the bottom right on the M10P than on my M-A.

Both of them were supposed to have the same magnification!?

[Jeff S]

1 minute ago, flf said:

I have one question though:

With my Summilux 50 Asph, the viewfinder and the 50 framelines are more obstructed in the bottom right on the M10P than on my M-A.

Both of them were supposed to have the same magnification!?

The M10 frame lines are optimized for a distance of 2m; the M-A lines for .7m.

Jeff

[adan]

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flf: just in case you don't know what the heck "optimized for a distance of 2m" means (it is rather esoteric knowledge).

A lens changes its apparent focal length or image area slightly as it is moved in and out to focus.

If you've ever used any kind of projector (movie, slide, video), you've already experienced this. Pull the projector away from the screen or projection-wall, and it projects a bigger image.

|>•[] compared to |>•[]

A 50mm lens set to its close-up focal position, farthest from the film or sensor, projects the world slightly larger than it does focused at longer distances: 2m, 5m, 20m, infinity. Which is cropped more by the fixed shutter opening - thus a 50mm lens focused down to 0.7 m acts like a ~56mm lens (less scenery in the picture).

With an SLR - you can see what the lens is doing on the ground glass. With a separate viewfinder like the Leica M's, the frameline "box" is a fixed size, and thus it provides perfectly accurate framing only at one subject distance.

For many years, Leica chose the most-cropped picture area (the view at closest focus of 0.7m) to size the framelines. To provide a safety margin and avoid accidentally leaving out the top of someone's head, or other goofs. I.E. they optimized all their camera's 50mm framelines for framing at 0.7m. Film images tend to get additionally cropped after the fact - by slide mounts, or negative carriers, or lab printing machines.

Now, with the digital cameras, which do not get cropped in viewing that way (no slide mounts, no film carriers), the frame lines optimized for 0.7m often produced very "loose" framing - you got quite a bit more in the picture than you expected to get from the framelines (especially in long-distance pictures like landscapes).

So after trying various optimized distances since the original M8, Leica settled on optimizing the digital cameras' framelines (as in the M10) to frame correctly at 2m (a compromise between close-up and infinity subjects).

Thus the M10 framelines (including for the 50mm), optimized for 2m, are slightly larger boxes - which include more of the lens obstruction as well. The M-A 50mm frameline, optimized for 0.7m like the 65 years of previous M film cameras, is slightly smaller, and the lens does not poke as far into it, thus obstructs the frame less.

[Jeff S]

Jeff

[flf]

Thanks to both of you!! Makes way more sense to me now!! I was a bit lost, thinking that there was something wrong in the rangefinder/framelines.

Again, thank you!

[01af]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb adan:

Thus the M10 framelines (including for the 50 mm), optimized for 2 m, are slightly larger boxes - which include more of the lens obstruction as well. The M-A 50mm frameline, optimized for 0.7 m like the 65 years of previous M film cameras, is slightly smaller, and the lens does not poke as far into it, thus obstructs the frame less.

Aaand ... on top of that, the viewfinder magnifications are not the same. M-A is 0.72×; M10 is 0.73×.